Carbon fiber intake plenum


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Elias_GR
Elias_GR
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Hello everyone! 

I'm planing on making an intake plenum from carbon fiber and kevlar. It is for a turbocharged car, so it needs to withstand some pressure!
The boost will be under 1 bar at the moment but I'm planning on testing the part on 3 bars at least, for reassurance.
The parts will be made from heat resistant Vinylester probably, if not Epoxy resin and vacuum infusion.

I'm planning on using 3 layers of 200gr 2X2 Twill Carbon fiber and 2 or 3 layers of hybrid 164gr Plain Carbon/Kevlar, alternatly in the layers.
By that, I mean, the first layer will be Carbon fiber, then Carbon/Kevlar, then Carbon fiber etc etc.

Will these layers and fabrics will be enough? Should I add anything or change any of the layers?

Here is the 3D model of the parts in assembly. 

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/ebdd8fd4-90c6-48d1-b1f0-a5c4.JPG


http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/a0ec41ec-9a6e-4ba7-b162-d36f.JPG
Hanaldo
Hanaldo
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I would probably build it a fair bit stronger than that to be honest, and probably ditch the Kevlar. Kevlar is only stronger than carbon once the laminate has failed, so it's really useful for holding parts together that may suffer breakage but in the case of a plenum it's much better to build a stronger part that just won't break. 

I would suggest aiming for a layup of around 1.5-2mm thick, and a bit beefier on any mounting points and the inlet if it's going to have a hose clamp on it. So my layup would probably be one layer of 200g, three or four layers of 450g, and then another layer of 200g for stability. Extra localised layer of 450 on the mounting points. Solid carbon. 
Elias_GR
Elias_GR
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Thanks Hanaldo! 

I'm aiming for 2-2.5mm for total safety to be exact.
Would it be better if i used Unidirectional fabric and putting it +/- 45 degrees or Twill fabric?
Hanaldo
Hanaldo
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For 2-2.5mm you will want 4 or 5 layers of 450 with a layer of 200 on either side. Alternatively 3-4 layers of 650 with one layer of 200 either side. With infusion and pre-preg, the thickness can be roughly estimated by the weight of the fabric. One layer of 200g will add 0.2mm, one layer of 450 will add approximately 0.45mm, and so on. 

Also no, I don't think for this application you really need a uni. Fibre orientation won't be too critical. You need bulk, you won't really have load in one plane more than another. The only place the fibre orientation would really matter is on the inlet if it's going to have clamping force on it, in which case you will want fibres on that plane. Uni may be useful here. 
andygtt
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I made a carbon plenum for my noble over the past 8 months... not bonded it together but its strong enough to stand on so is easily as strong as the stock plastic one was.

Made it in pre reg, 1 layer finish, 3 layers of 450... however the shape adds a lot to the rigidity, if i had flat surfaces like yours i would have beefed that up considerably.





andygtt
andygtt
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I would echo above, I didn't use any kevlar..... Id also make it in PrePreg as I wanted to cure it to 120 deg C just to be sure it doesn't soften in the engine bay, resin infusion would not go safely above 80-90deg c in the oven.
Elias_GR
Elias_GR
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Thanks a lot for the replies!

You've done a really nice work on the intake plenum there Andy!

I can't use pre-preg unfortunatelly cause I don't have the necessary equipment. 
I'm planning to make it from Vinylester, as I mentioned above, and then post-cure it to achieve better hear resistance.

Probably I'll make a first piece from carbon fiber and fiberglass, for testing, and then I'll proceed in making the actual piece.
I'm waiting to get the pieces from the CNC to start the molds one of these days, so I'll update as soon as I have anything new.
davro
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I'm in the same boat I want to create a plenum fairly soon but I don't have access to a prepreg setup oven etc, only an infusion setup.
You could cover some of the areas exposed to heat with a heat reflective materials.

Looking forward to updates Smile



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Elias_GR
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I was thinking exactly the same thing yesterday, about the heat reflective materials.
The one problem is that I don't want to cover the carbon fiber, for aesthetic reasons. The other thing is that I'm thinking that it won't be necessary though cause the engine is a simple inline 4 motor. That means that it has the intake on one side and the exhaust on the exact opposite. The temperature in the intake side will be under 90-100 degrees(Celcius) for sure. 

I guess I'll find it out if everything melts in there! Tongue
Hanaldo
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You really should be ok, you may just suffer a bit of print-through. I've made plenty of engine bay parts (including plenums) using an infusion resin with a Tg of 90, and for the most part they haven't even printed too badly. Hell, I've made inner guards for a 1500hp twin-turbo Impala, where the inner guards sit 5mm away from the exhaust manifold. These would easily be exposed to over 350C. Yes, they are discoloured quite badly in the area they sit close to the manifold, but that is the worst of it. 



I mean I'm not necessarily recommending using a 90 Tg resin for a 350C application, rather just pointing out that your parts aren't going to melt and fall apart. What will happen is that if they are exposed to heat above their capabilities then the resin will soften a touch, which will certainly lead to print through. If the parts are under load and are unsupported, they may distort quite badly depending on their geometry and the degree of load etc. For example on something like a plenum, if you had a hose clamp on the inlet piping, this may distort the mouth of the plenum. Or if you had your intake piping bolted onto a throttle body, and this was unsupported weight that was 'hanging' off the front of the plenum, then this may distort the entire plenum. 

So things like that are what you will want to consider. Otherwise, if you are only going 15-20 degrees above their Tg, the worst you are likely to experience is a bit of discolouration and some print-through. 
Edited 7 Years Ago by Hanaldo
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