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pre-preg pinholes.. driving me crazy
pre-preg pinholes.. driving me crazy
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pre-preg pinholes.. driving me crazy
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morepower
morepower
posted 11 Years Ago
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Haha..... the sun might just do it.....
I will sort something a little more specific and try and give you a better description of the heater and fan.... I use MDF for the box not card...lol..
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roger sbk composites
roger sbk composites
posted 11 Years Ago
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i have a crazy idea let me know if this would work.. well i live in tropical country of costa rica and right now its summer time... how about i throw the bag on a peace of breather.. and put in on the roof top temps here get 80f but the sun is really hot sometimes... would that work... or is the sun too much... i can throw on roof top all day then cook.. meanwhile i figure out this cardboard oven out i can build a bike but electrical is my weack point i do have an air heater with built in temostat but if you saying that fan needs to be running thats where ill have to find out someone to make this for me... any pictures of yours? and an ebay list ill purchase everything and then figure it out
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morepower
morepower
posted 11 Years Ago
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matthieutje65 (20/01/2014)
The thing you could do is use easypreg finishing layer behind that plain weave to add some resin rich fabric to maybe get a better finish and less pinholes
That may work but I have been told more resin does not always mean less pinholes.. I have used a material that was resin rich and pinholes were the same as other less resin rich material. The plain weave I am using at the moment is 42% and gives a great finish.. But as I said it is not easy to find that point where it all works... Plus Plain weave is a lot more prone for pinholes...
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Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
posted 11 Years Ago
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The thing you could do is use easypreg finishing layer behind that plain weave to add some resin rich fabric to maybe get a better finish and less pinholes
Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com
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morepower
morepower
posted 11 Years Ago
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Yes I cut the sides and matched them in.... Plain weave is harder to find I use a plain weave but it is a lot more prone to pinholes than twill and you have to be 100% with everything you do to get it pin hole free or almost pinhole free... The layup has to be perfect, the breather stack and curing schedule has to be followed exactly every time. If the bag is not perfect it has some pinholes... I leave the pump running on the bag for the full cure and still find if there is a slight leak it is OK but you find some pinholes....
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roger sbk composites
roger sbk composites
posted 11 Years Ago
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thanks guy.. ive seen that video im subscribed to you... i know about the eassy preg... the problem is the client wanted this rear hugger plain weave and i havent been able to find plain weave pre-preg that will work... so i had to use this crap... the third part had acceptable pinholes i could live with apart from the bridging... morepower on the sides of the hugger did you cut the fabric to be able to layup first the sides then the middle part??? with infusion i was having problems too i was getting 3d looking c.f from the bridgin so i cut pannels out... but do this to plain weave i dont think it would look good
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Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
posted 11 Years Ago
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I've made this video a few months ago, using the prepreg for Easycomposites.
Just like morepower says it's a matter of some trial and error in the beginning and you working with good materials is probably the start.
You can not use autoclave designed prepreg for Out of autoclave prepreg making... Easycomposites sells a finishing prepreg, it is a bit more resin rich giving a pinhole finish!
It's also very easy to put down because it has a tackfree backing. It is very important to lay your prepreg down against the mould. A perfect vacuum without leaks is a must! you may not have any bridging into your releaselayer at the bag and the bag must be tightly against the materials/moulds....
by saying all of this, a lot can go wrong...but after a while you kind of get that feeling when you know everything will go well...
Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com
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morepower
morepower
posted 11 Years Ago
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Ok... Cool.. I know Nick from 666 and I know who made some of his moulds... long story and quite dull or not depending on who's side you hear....lol.. I had use of his hugger mould (made by the guy who made some of the 666 moulds) and it was full of stress cracks... I dont think they looked after the moulds too well at times..lol.
The pre-preg my be one of the problems as it sounds like it is an autoclave only pre-preg. The only off the shelf out of autoclave pre-preg that works is either VTF261 from Cytec in Derbyshire (50 meter minimum order now apparently) or Easypreg from Easy Composites (it is the same stuff.....). I know it works but I also have to say people have had some issues with pin holes with it too as it is not a guaranteed pinhole free finish even though you can get those results.
I use a material from another supplier which works very well but is not one they sell as a comparable material to VTF261, I just happen to have found a way to make it work.. It is part breather stack and part curing shedule and it took me 6 months of testing to find a way that would work each time I laid up a part.
The oven is not a secret and not hard to make up to be honest but it has to be well controlled and very little temperature difference between the top and bottom and I have at worst 1 degree difference top to bottom... it takes anything from 30 minutes to a day to set up how it works though.... If you imagine a open box with one side open. You need to make it so air is blown down one side (a narrow channel is enough) to the deepest point of the box then flow back out of the box again. Then you need to have a sliding door to close and stop all of the hot air just spilling out again. It has to let some air out but keep most of the heat in... The door slides to let me control how much air comes out.. Too much and the oven loses temperature... Not enough it also loses temperature but will over heat the fan heater... You need to keep air flowing at all times....
One of these will do..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3KW-10200BTU-Industrial-Workshop-Square-Fan-Space-Heater-Electric-Fire-2580-Kcal-/201006642821?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item2eccedf685
You will need a controller and relay plus a box to fit it all into.. eBay is your friend......lol. The hard part is sorting out the wiring to keep the motor going when the heating element is turned off by the controller.. You will need to remove the over heat protection from the box or find one which will let you get up to at least 90 degrees.. That heater has two one for the lowest power setting and 20 degrees I think and the second one is up to 65 degrees on medium and high power... Get an electrician to sort it out..... it is not hard but does take some thinking about... Then you have the oven....
You will need to work out how to get your material to cure yourself though... each pre-preg is different...
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roger sbk composites
roger sbk composites
posted 11 Years Ago
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more power.... want to sell me those plans for the cardboard box oven please :-)
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roger sbk composites
roger sbk composites
posted 11 Years Ago
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i put breather EVERYWHERE....
and here you can see i press down into the mold with a mixing stick and a heat gun so its driving me crazy already... more power.. did you cut the side??? or is it one full cloth???
morepower.... we are going to be best friend jejej i also have the complete ex tripple 6 molds and people want them but so far i cant pre-preg en i made this test in my kitchen oven to see what it felt like im completly new to pre-preg
i am using this aviation stuff here are the instructions from ebay guy... they sound to me like instructions to start up a plasma motor lol
________________________________________________________________
Can be cured at temperatures from 250°F to 300°F, depending on service temperature requirements
Recommended cure cycle is 50 psi; 3°F/min ramp to 275°F; hold for 90 minutes, cool to <140°F
Low, medium, and high pressure molding techniques may be used to cure this resin system
Store frozen or use within 30 days. Beyond this, material may become difficult to work with
Material can be stored for 1 year at sub-freezing temperatures
___________________________________________________________________________
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