Advanced guide - Working with pre-pregs


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FLD
FLD
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Given this is a thread on pre-preg usage I wonder if the OP (or anyone else) can give some tips on preventing delamination in impact prone parts.  I've come across tufting, stitching and z-pins but these have associated issues.  Some experience here would be useful.
mawgan
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Hi everyone,

I currently have some top of the range carbon fibre twill pre-preg for sale. Priced per linear metre (1.27m2).

SE 84LV TOUGHENED EPOXY PREPREG - Gurit



http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141329279949

Available in 200g & 416g twill, this is great stuff used on most Americas Cup and Volvo Ocean Race yachts. The price on the listing is about half of the cost per metre so a bargain. It is in date until 05/2015.

morepower
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TomDesign (03/09/2013)
interesting where cutting is neaded of hard angles and to much material go into one place after baking that place where cutted you not see join?


It is quite easy to match straight cuts where several pieces go together it is harder to hid where it has to curve and overlap so I find it is best to try and do it where it is not seen as easily or make several cuts and overlap the carbon carefully. You will see the curve a little but it does depend on the part too... This one was easy to lay up even with the compound curves..  That latest part is only my 21st ever pre-preg part.. It just takes care and time to get it right... Get the basics sorted with wet lay and out of autoclave carbon before you look to invest in an Autoclave.... If you cannot make a good part out of an autoclave it will still not produce a perfect part in one... 
TomDesign
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interesting where cutting is neaded of hard angles and to much material go into one place after baking that place where cutted you not see join?
morepower
morepower
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Part made using my cheap and quick controller... I didnt use one of my best moulds as I didnt want to ruin a good mould if something went wrong and is just a general purpose polyester resin and normal none tooling gel coat. So did not want to run it too hot but it needed to be hot enough to cure too.. If the controller failed or was not accurate it would have either not cured or could have heated up the mould too much and damaged it... So as a test it worked well and no pin holes in there at all.... Perfect finish. It was not even using VTF 261 too.... Just a bog standard £28.00 sq/m pre-preg.



It goes to show, if you take your time and do it all by the book and understand what you are doing parts can be really nice with other pre-pregs too... No lacquer on here either this is out of the mould and has better clarity than the VTF261 too...

morepower
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TomDesign (25/08/2013)
Any images of your construction autoclave? so can imagine all that stuff connected ? that would help a lot to get and visible idea!


OK no photo of the oven I am using at the moment but to be honest the part I am making is quite small and I dont need a large space so I am just using two card board boxes inside each other to make a double thickness wall and a card divider down the center. Plus a box lid that I can use as a door and somewhere for air to vent and circulate round the box. The divider just allows air to flow round in one direction and not just blow to the bottom of the box and cause turbulence. I will get a photo when I have finished the part tomorrow..

Here is the part just so you get an idea when I tell you where I placed the themometer to check the part temperature as it cooks.


Here is my basic controller. I have wired in a 6 way extension lead so I can run a couple of things from it if I need to use a couple of heaters. 

The thermocouple probe is wired into the controller and these have their own power supply. 

The extension lead has a seperate power supply going through the box and into a Solid state relay. So the box has two plugs on the for power.. You can see three cables in the photo with the 6 way extension two top right and one bottom right. The two top right are power in. The thinner black cable just to power the controller and the white thicker cable to power the heaters and go through the Solid state relay.  The bottom right cable is power out to the 6 way extension. 


Here it is in use.. I set the controller at 65 degrees to get the pre-preg up to the lower flow temperature and let the heater (in this case a cheap hair drier). I placed the probe thermo couple at a point about mid way up and front to back in the side where the part is to be cooked (NOT the side which has the heat being blown directly into the box oven.) 

I also taped my wireless meat thermometer to the outside of the part along the inner straight edge at the bottom edge of the part. As you can see the oven is up to 65 Degrees and after a period of heat soak the part is also at exactly 65 degrees too.... It works very well for small parts and as I can plug anything into the extension I can run one or two hair driers or a 3kw fan heater ect.. I can run any combination of heater up to the rated 30amp plug and cable will allow as the Solid state relay is rated at 40amps too.. My limit is the rating of the power cable and my power supply to the box.  
Edited 11 Years Ago by morepower
fgayford
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mawgan (01/09/2013)
Hi Fred,

Thanks for your question. I will take a photo of the spike rollers that we use and put it up this week, I'm not sure exactly where you can buy them from as we order through a company called Monks & Crane who supply all of our workshop consumables (like rollers and handles etc) but there must be an online retailer that will sell them.

I have also attached some photos of some Carbon fibre skateboards that I have produced, they utilise a vertically laminated bamboo core with Carbon fibre/glass fibre composite and we mill them on our CNC machine. The boards in the photos are produced using wet layup, I have also made them with pre-preg, etc.

Thanks.

Mawgan.


Your boards like very nice.
Fred

Airship-Jim
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Hi Mawgan.

I see from you post that you advise us all here on the forum about your expertise working with advanced composite materials and techniques. I would like to ask you if you have ever worked with Spectra/Dyneema sheet material for both resin infusion and laminating with core materials, plus what techniques you used to machine it to produce a final product ?

Jim
Airship-Jim
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Hi Morepower.

                                                            
I make up a box to suit my parts... It can be anything from 2 double wall cardboard boxes inside each other (Good insulator) or a brand new Wheelie bin for slightly larger parts.. My biggest parts have been done in a friends oven but when I have time I am going to line an unused outside toilet, which is in my garage at home, with sheets of Kingspan insulation and make a forced air circulation system which can be used with my portable heater and controller.

Here is my basic heater set up....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261248875323?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221069382477?var=520098955846&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3kw-Industrial-Heater-Electric-Thermostat-Fan-Heater-Portable-Blow-Cooler-Warm-/190734861601?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item2c68af0521
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261257736361?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190836999056?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


I have had to alter the heater to keep the fan running and bypass the thermal over rides which turn it off at 65 degrees C and run the heating elements directly through the controller and 40amp SSR. The fan runs continually that way. 

This is the type of fan I am going to use with the full size oven as you want to get air circulating as fast as possible to get an even heat through the oven..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rexon-DE-1000A-Portable-Dust-Extractor-/330999205929?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d11171029
 The way the air will be ducted has not been sorted out yet as it will need to be done once the oven case has been made up.                                                                             
                  Post #7551                                 
I like the details you are providing for the equipment to make up an oven for working with pre-pregs, I am hoping you will be putting up some pics of your finished oven designs and hope you are open to a pm to discuss helping me build my own in the near future when I am ready to have a try at pre-preg carbon production.

Jim
mawgan
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Hi Fred,

Thanks for your question. I will take a photo of the spike rollers that we use and put it up this week, I'm not sure exactly where you can buy them from as we order through a company called Monks & Crane who supply all of our workshop consumables (like rollers and handles etc) but there must be an online retailer that will sell them.

I have also attached some photos of some Carbon fibre skateboards that I have produced, they utilise a vertically laminated bamboo core with Carbon fibre/glass fibre composite and we mill them on our CNC machine. The boards in the photos are produced using wet layup, I have also made them with pre-preg, etc.

Thanks.

Mawgan.
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