Structural car parts


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themadscientist
themadscientist
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I've been watching the videos, and first off thank you for the inspiration. I was amazed how similar the process was to fiberglass. I have a question that probably requires some expertise and experience. I wan't to make a subframe (k member, cross member) for an Audi. The stock steel piece is incredibly heavy. It does support the weight of the engine and takes a load from the lower suspension bits. I have background in metal fabrication and design, but I'd like to try it in CF before jumping straight to aluminium. 

I'm already planning on using a core material like aluminum honeycomb, unless suggested otherwise. The main thing I want to know is what is the BEST carbon fiber types/styles to use. I know it will require just a little flex as the stock unit does, but it still needs to be incredibly stiff and strong.  I'm already prepared to fail as I know this is usually only done on very high end supercars so I imagine it will take some trial and error. I'll be using machined solid aluminum inserts to reinforce the areas where bolts go through and would normally crush it. 

Thank you for your time!
FLD
FLD
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Good lord!  That's some ambitious project.  WRT 'best fibre type' I would say unidirectional would be the best but you would first need to calculate the loads on the subframe and lay up in the right directions.  From what I've seen of supercars most use carbon for the tub but then revert to metals for subframes / cross members etc.  The reason being that they are far more durable than composites.  I'm not sure how composites fatigue so you may find you're having to replace your cross member rather frequently.  Consider the elise.  This uses an alloy tub with a steel rear subframe.  An alloy subframe and composite subframe were investigated but were unsuitable for this reason. 
wojtepanik
wojtepanik
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Hi,
It is rather impossible. Building cf support for engine it is just un efficient, even cars like pagani zonda or huraya have subrames for suspension and engine mounting made from steel or aluminium. I think that pagani is the most sophisticated manufacturer of cf cars, so we could trust them as it isn't the way to do it. Theoretically you can produce cf monocoque and then bolt it with engine and chassis. There is no answer which is the best fiber. Without some serious studies and models of your future car you can't produce even a single body pannel, as It would not just make any  sense.  Look closer to construction of frame http://forums.finalgear.com/attachments/general-automotive/main-differences-in-zonda-engine-to-make-it-sound-so-different-from-regular-merc-v12/7121d1340599475-0410_17z-pagani_zonda_c12_s-underhood_engine_suspension.jpg
If you have any doubts just ask
Bye
Wojtek from Poland

~~~Everytime I hear sound of demoulding part I have eargasm~~~
wozza
wozza
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Most things are possible if you have a HUGE budget and the access to high end simulation and test equipment. I would imagine that all the top supercar manufacturers have looked into this and come to the same conclusion "it is possible but not financially viable"
If your looking to save weight then there are plenty of other areas of the car you could address. Body panels would be my starting point. Bonnet and Boot lids on most production cars are heavy items. Plus you can use the originals to take moulds from. Composites may look pretty easy from the videos etc but trust me it isn't. Start with something small like a wing mirror until your experience grows. Jump in at the deep end and you will likely end up frustrated and with a lot of expensive materials in the scrap bin.
Just my opinionSmile

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
themadscientist
themadscientist
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I appreciate everyone's input! I got a chance to talk to someone locally who has massive experience with CF and he told me the shock loads and weight of a 3000lb car would likely destroy it in short order. I'll be sticking to front end panels and other items. Thanks everyone!
wozza
wozza
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themadscientist (29/11/2013)
I appreciate everyone's input! I got a chance to talk to someone locally who has massive experience with CF and he told me the shock loads and weight of a 3000lb car would likely destroy it in short order. I'll be sticking to front end panels and other items. Thanks everyone!




Sounds like a plan, good luck. Try and enjoy it, things can be very frustrating in the early days.

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
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