Who can show and give lesson for pre-pregs at god price?


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TomDesign
TomDesign
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anyone can help by this at good price?
carbonfibreworks
carbonfibreworks
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Perhaps if you state your location someone may be able to offer their services.
Chris
www.carbonfibrewoks.co.uk

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/97e08777-693c-4af1-a27a-86cf.png
morepower
morepower
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Tom to be honest... I few lessons on a simple part is not going to do a huge amount to help. You know the basics... Get the surface layer down as well as possible and make sure you have no bridging. Once you have one or two layers down you need to de-bulk by putting the part into a bag and pulling it down.. Then you need to put the backing layers down in the same way and when you bag it pull it down and let it de-bulk again.. If you can leave it to de-bulk for as long as you can and I leave all my cooking until the following day so it has at least 12 to 14 hours with a full vacuum. The tools you need to lay the carbon are good scissors, sharp blade and something that will push the carbon down firmly but not damage the carbon or mould... I use this for some of my work
http://www.diy.com/nav/decor/tiles/tiling-tools-accessories/grouting_tools/-specificproducttype-finishers___primers/Mac-Allister-Silicone-Finisher-12258008?skuId=12788714

I also make my own push tools from wood or plastics. Anything that helps push the material down into place... Once you have a few simple tools and scissors or blades for cutting the carbon you should be able to lay up the material. One other item is a hair drier to warm up the carbon and soften the resin to help you get it down and push out any air.. The heat will expand the air and you can work it out..  

Bagging needs perfect bags to be honest... anything to make it easier... once you have practiced you may find a tiny very slow leak is not a problem but it is not good practice to have leaky bags. 

Cooking the parts will need care and an accurate oven, temperature controller and thermometer... I have said I will post up some photos of my kit and when I lay up my next part I will.... 

The guy who taught me did not touch anything he made me do it all from day one.. if I made a mistake he would offer suggestions but getting pre-preg down is about feel as much as it is just laying down carbon. You need to be able to feel what it is doing and make sure you take care... 

How you bag it up and how you use the release film. peel ply and breather does depend on the material and the shape of the parts too... I have one part that has no peel ply or breather over the release film... Some need perforated release film some need non perforated film... it is not a hard and fast rule... it is a mix of the part and the material you use... I have used autoclave low temp pre preg and had a perfect finish on some parts... But others would be full of pin holes... it is getting to know the materials and moulds... No two moulds work the same and I have two that look identical but one is left handed the other right... I have a problem with one side that I never have with the other so have to alter how I work... Having a week laying up a simple part will only give you the basics but you may get home and not get a good part from your own moulds... 

You need to get a mould that is not too simple but not too big and practice over and over until you get it right... try different ways of bagging with different films and running peel play on the edge or not using peel ply... Using release with breather over the part too or just release film.... ect.. trial and error...I can get a set of photos of one of my parts being laid up but it is what you do not see that is a big part of it and so is feel....
TomDesign
TomDesign
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ADVISE ONLY NEED TO START FROM SOMEWHERE. SO FROM WHAT MATERIAL IS YOUR MOLDS? also in what temperature it cures? any images of owen so i can have an idea to build as i thought to use piccas owen but its only 1metres on 50cm i need one and good. that be like 2 metres long 50cm high and 1 metre width. 
TomDesign
TomDesign
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and problem that no one around me in 1000 km do anything carbon that is nice.
Tominator
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Just give it a shot. See what happens. Do a simple part first.
morepower
morepower
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Use Optimould for your tooling... You also need a tooling gel coat.. 

I will show you what I have done for my ovens when I am using them again... You will need to post cure the moulds. Start at 40 degrees C for a couple of hours and work up to 60 for about 6 hours then up to 80 degrees c for another 6 hours then up to 100 degrees C for 6 to 8 hours. 

Use a chemical mould cleaner then sealer with about 4 to 6 coats of sealer and finally chemical release with another 4 to 6 coats. 

I have a part to make soon so I will get some photos of the oven controller. 
TomDesign
TomDesign
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ok thanxs that would help a lot as i only saw something on youtube but that not help.
TomDesign
TomDesign
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also what are advantages and disadvantages between - pre preg and infusion?
morepower
morepower
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TomDesign (30/08/2013)
also what are advantages and disadvantages between - pre preg and infusion?


My good friend who made my moulds does a lot of infusion work too... He only does infusion for larger parts and for my type of work he has said it is not a guaranteed route to perfect parts and to get really good cosmetic parts you need to gel the surface and understand what you are doing really well... He has made my moulds suitable for infusion as well as pre-preg but has said to use pre-preg over infusion for most of my work.. Yours may be different but I trust him totally and he doesnt sell me parts or materials so has nothing to gain with his advice. Pre-preg parts are a little lighter and stronger if you have the same number of layers too.. Cost wise if you use MTI hose and Epoxy resins there is not a huge difference when you look at the finished products cost to make... Infusion takes longer to set up and has more consumable materials as well as catch pots and hose routing ect. Pre-preg is quite simple and the only time consuming part is de-bulking the carbon but if you have a multiple part mould you can de-bulk each section as you lay up the next... You can re-use those bags usually and the release film and breather too as you are not curing anything just pulling it down.  I have seen several parts done with infusion that look amazing and then again I have seen as many that look awful and need a lot of work to correct or have to be thrown away.

I prefer pre-preg to be honest or normal wet lay and vacuum bagging.

Here is a wet lay part just out of the mould and rough trimmed with no lacquer or polishing done.. I laid this up last night. I just gel coated the simple mould (no flanges as it was only supposed to be for a single set and I was not worried about grinding the edges) left it to go off to a light tack and laid it up using general purpose polyester resins. I spent no more than an hour making this part...If I infused it with a better mould it would have been a lot longer and cost more to produce. 




So I would get used to wet lay and using a vacuum bag ect and the consumables that go with it as it is the same as you would use with pre-preg too... It lets you understand more about how resin flows ect and should make it easier to do pre-preg as you get more used to it all... The guy who helped me said of my first few parts the quality was what he would have expected from someone with 2 to 3 years experience.. I think knowing the basics has helped me and doing it ALL myself has too... It may have been harder work but there is nothing like getting your hands dirty doing a job over watching videos and looking at others doing it as it is a hands on job and without making mistakes you do not learn from them too.... 
GO

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