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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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Hi I have been looking at this Air Box and trying to figure out how I can Vaccum Bag ??? to me looks impossible, so any help appreciated, Regards DM
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan).  Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door.   .  Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM Hi, I am about to make my Mould, got my Barriers made and attached, first problem is when I layed down a line of glue with my hot glue gun it was gone hard before I could position my barrier, I have seen I think Matt lay down a lot longer line than I did an he was able to get his barrier attached while the glue was still soft ??/ and advice appreciated. I have the HT El160 Epoxy Tooling Gel, what color is it and can it be tinted as I like a contrasting white gel in my Mould, I have plenty of the white tinter I used for the Polyester Gel and Resin ? so will this do, Thanks Regards DM
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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM Hi, I am about to make my Mould, got my Barriers made and attached, first problem is when I layed down a line of glue with my hot glue gun it was gone hard before I could position my barrier, I have seen I think Matt lay down a lot longer line than I did an he was able to get his barrier attached while the glue was still soft ??/ and advice appreciated. I have the HT El160 Epoxy Tooling Gel, what color is it and can it be tinted as I like a contrasting white gel in my Mould, I have plenty of the white tinter I used for the Polyester Gel and Resin ? so will this do, Thanks Regards DM Depends on how hot your gun gets the glue and the temperature of the surface you apply it to. My gun temp is adjustable up to 210 (I think) deg C making the glue almost watery! You could warm up the mould with a heat gun prior to applying the glue, giving you more time to apply and fit the barriers.
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM Hi, I am about to make my Mould, got my Barriers made and attached, first problem is when I layed down a line of glue with my hot glue gun it was gone hard before I could position my barrier, I have seen I think Matt lay down a lot longer line than I did an he was able to get his barrier attached while the glue was still soft ??/ and advice appreciated. I have the HT El160 Epoxy Tooling Gel, what color is it and can it be tinted as I like a contrasting white gel in my Mould, I have plenty of the white tinter I used for the Polyester Gel and Resin ? so will this do, Thanks Regards DM Depends on how hot your gun gets the glue and the temperature of the surface you apply it to. My gun temp is adjustable up to 210 (I think) deg C making the glue almost watery! You could warm up the mould with a heat gun prior to applying the glue, giving you more time to apply and fit the barriers. Hi Thank, can you also tell me where I can download the data Sheets from as I tried the search box but it came back with nothing, Regards DM
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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM Hi, I am about to make my Mould, got my Barriers made and attached, first problem is when I layed down a line of glue with my hot glue gun it was gone hard before I could position my barrier, I have seen I think Matt lay down a lot longer line than I did an he was able to get his barrier attached while the glue was still soft ??/ and advice appreciated. I have the HT El160 Epoxy Tooling Gel, what color is it and can it be tinted as I like a contrasting white gel in my Mould, I have plenty of the white tinter I used for the Polyester Gel and Resin ? so will this do, Thanks Regards DM Depends on how hot your gun gets the glue and the temperature of the surface you apply it to. My gun temp is adjustable up to 210 (I think) deg C making the glue almost watery! You could warm up the mould with a heat gun prior to applying the glue, giving you more time to apply and fit the barriers. Hi Thank, can you also tell me where I can download the data Sheets from as I tried the search box but it came back with nothing, Regards DM If you are talking about EC's component prepregs, click on the datasheet button on the details page.
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWhen you rub or break by hand a powder pound CSM, then usually you will get a white powder falling off as you rub or break it. Vacuum bagging is generally not necessary. For example, the putty if correctly applied, will fill the sharp corners and recesseses - thus no voids. The laying up of the cloth is then much easier and just requires good quality laminating by hand to achieve a void free finish. So there is little to gain from vacuum bagging that hasn't already been achieved through proper and good quality laminating. In theory it may well help for very high temperature applications but this is rare and i have not heard of anyone vacuum bagging the moulds even in this situation. I would expand on what Warren said - The important part is getting the gel coat into all the corners and crevices. As this is like a very thick paint when warm, you can't vacuum bag it as it will simply squish all over the place!. You then add the paste whilst the gel coat is still tacky (but firm enough that pushing on the paste doesn't disturb it- correct me if I am wrong Warren or Paul, but I use the fingerprint test, if my finger leaves a print but the gel doesn't come off on my finger it is ready for the next stage) and then add the fibreglass over the whole lot. For smallish parts I use an old domestic oven bought from eBay. There are plenty on there, here is an example. Simply drill a hole through the side for the vacuum tube :-) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/neff-Electric-oven-You-Arrange-Courier-Or-Collect/323346305953?hash=item4b48f113a1%3Ag%3AKUAAAOSwpz5bR6-N&_sacat=0&_nkw=domestic+oven+electric&_from=R40&LH_ItemCondition=4&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Hi Steve, Don't get me wrong, but I know the basics as I have been doing Fiberglas for over 30 years, so I have lots of Moulds and am forever repairing then, mainly because they were not made well to start with, none have been Vacuum Bagged, so now I want to start learning the correct way and Materials to do CF, so want to start with Hand Layup and Air dry, and if I get on with then I will buy a large oven to accommodate large panels such as Bonnets, doors, Undertrays, the Ferrari Undertrays are very large approx 6ft X 4.5 ft, so I do not want to run before I can walk, Like I said to Warren the Mould is the most important tool as it is going to be used lots of times, and especially if you have a perfect item to Mould the last thing you want to be doing is repairs to a new Mould, so when I found this Forum I was hoping for some great advice, but when someone says no need to VB your Mould I find it very hard to believe that that is best practice, so anyway I will persevere and try VBing my Moulds, so thanks for all you advice and help, I will let you know how I get on, Regards DM I don't get you wrong :-) This is a great place to throw around ideas. Once the gel coat has cured sufficiently so that you can add the paste, no amount of vacuum bagging will improve matters. However, there is no harm in vacuum bagging the fibreglass but you are wasting a lot of time and materials for no advantage, IMO. The guys stating there is no need to vacuum the mould work at EC so they do know what they are talking about. Matt is the guy in the videos :-) I made my own large oven (6' x 6' x 3') to accommodate my flip front. Easy to make and it is powered by 150w light bulbs :-) These are spread around the perimeter helping to even out the temp (this is also a large fan). Hi Steve, I am now convinced that I cannot VB my Mould so again Thanks for your help and advice an old dog like me has to be convinced ???,your oven sounds good what is it made of and how do you control the temperature, I have seen on some of the Video's where the temp has to be increased every Hour up to a max ??, other good news my spare Airbox has arrived this morning so I will have to start buying my materials soon from EC and get started,so again Thanks for all your help and Patience, Regards DM No problem :-) My oven is as simple as I could make it, mostly made from stuff lying around. The frame is 2 x 2 infilled with 2" insulation board. Internally it is lined (walls, ceiling and floor) with ply and heat reflective foil and clad outside with ply. Heating is provided by 150w bulbs. However, in order to have control of both temp ramp and final temp, I wired them there are 4 circuits, each controlled by a light switch. An additional circuit is controlled by an adjustable thermostat so I am able to set the required max temp. So far it has worked pretty well, as long as I am not in a hurry as to get to 120deg C takes around an hour or so :-) I have a fan so the air get circulated and 8 thermometers scattered around the oven so I can monitor that the oven is heating up evenly. I plan to add additional circuits in order to speed up the heating process. At the moment it maxes out around 130 deg C, which is high enough for my purposes. I used the glass out of an old microwave as a window so I could check on progress without having to open the door. . Hi Steve, your oven sounds great, and as you sayif it does the job then what more do you want, I might have a go if I get on with the CF, so again Thanks, Regards DM Hi Matt, Can you do me a list of what I will need to make the Mould and Air Box in carbon fibre,also the Vacuum Bagging materials, Thanks, Regards DM Hi, I am about to make my Mould, got my Barriers made and attached, first problem is when I layed down a line of glue with my hot glue gun it was gone hard before I could position my barrier, I have seen I think Matt lay down a lot longer line than I did an he was able to get his barrier attached while the glue was still soft ??/ and advice appreciated. I have the HT El160 Epoxy Tooling Gel, what color is it and can it be tinted as I like a contrasting white gel in my Mould, I have plenty of the white tinter I used for the Polyester Gel and Resin ? so will this do, Thanks Regards DM Depends on how hot your gun gets the glue and the temperature of the surface you apply it to. My gun temp is adjustable up to 210 (I think) deg C making the glue almost watery! You could warm up the mould with a heat gun prior to applying the glue, giving you more time to apply and fit the barriers. Hi Thank, can you also tell me where I can download the data Sheets from as I tried the search box but it came back with nothing, Regards DM If you are talking about EC's component prepregs, click on the datasheet button on the details page. Hi Thanks, yes I found the Data Sheets. I have just put down my first coat of the EG160 HT Gel Coat and found it very hard to brush, I am using a 1 inch brush but it is like trying to paint with a thick porridge is there any way to thin it out a bit, I stored it for nearly 2 days before I mixed it at 15 Degrees c thinking that might help but it did not, at the moment I have one half of my Mould gel coated and I do not want to do the other half as it is a lot trickery to do ? so any help advice appreciated, Regards DM
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