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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+xA bit like this.  Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo.  No, that is how it came out of the vacuum bag. I then made the flange using wet lay carbon. Not as pretty as doing in prepreg but a little filler and sanding and it looks fine. The flange is also under the radiator so can't be seen :-) I didn't form the flange first off as I didn't know what angle it would have to be until I had this piece fitted to the turbo.
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+xHi I have been looking at this Air Box and trying to figure out how I can Vaccum Bag ??? to me looks impossible, so any help appreciated, Regards DM Hi There, Actually, I think you might be overthinking it. Unless there's something I'm missing - I'm assuming that the bottom face which we can't see it completely open - The the bag would actually be very simple, it would just need to also be very large (like more than twice the size of the part). I can't see the mould so I don't know if you're planning to envelope bag or tape to the mould flange but the principle would be the same either way. If the bag was large enough you could just feed two 'socks' of bag into the inlet tubes and then would blank off at the mouth of the tubes (again, I can't see the mould but I assume the mould too blanks off at the mouth of these inlet tubes). As Steve has posted we also don't know what the rectangle is but I'm assuming it's just a cuboid shaped recess which is fully closed off, in which case you could just bag around this using the huge excesses of bag I'm suggesting again too. If you were envelope bagging then just imagine an absolutely massive bag with the part and mould inside and the bag sealed all around. When you do this you can picture yourself just stuffing bag into those two inlets (as though you'd fashioned some tube shapes from the big bag and fed them into these inlets) and then and the rest into the main area. I hope this helps but if I've missed something then let me know! Hi Matt, Thanks, as yet I have not made the Mould ( The Pic I got Online) so just trying to figure out how to go about it, this is just to top part of the air box as the bottom rectangular portion is completely open as the Air Filter sits between the top and bottom portion, also the 2 round tube sections are completely open, and also the ends of the tubes have quite a hefty Flange which is used to bolt to the MAF's ?/ so how would I go about these flanges as well, again I will enclose 2 more pics, and thanks for all your help, I will get to make some CF parts very very soon with your help,Regards DM Well, the inlet tubes would have been blanked off in the mould and then cut open when the part is trimmed. Knowing that will probably change how you think about the bagging. As for the flanges, they are quite likely to be separate components that are bonded on afterwards but they don't have to be. I can't really see from the images but you could either make them as separate parts or set up removable barriers on the mould to form these flanges. Hi Matt, Looking at Steve's pic of his mould with both ends open, so looks like he just stuffed one end of his bag through one end of his mould and out the other end, and then pulled the other end of his bag over his mould and back to same end and sealed it there,?? is that correct, as my Airbox is very similar only difference is I have 3 openings, so is there any need for me to Blanks off the round open ends of mine, again thanks, Regards DM
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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, both ends were open and the bag was pushed in both ends and met in the middle.
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, both ends were open and the bag was pushed in both ends and met in the middle. I Steve, I still cannot see how you can push one end of a bag in one end of your mould and the other end of your bag in the other end of your mold and have them meet in the middle, as far I can see when you Vacuumed your bag it would just colapse on it self so no pressure on the Molding ???Regards DM
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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, it was left open and the bag pushed in from both ends. I added the turbo flange (as it has an internal trumpet so not possible to make in one piece) and flange.  
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, it was left open and the bag pushed in from both ends. I added the turbo flange (as it has an internal trumpet so not possible to make in one piece) and flange. I Steve, I still cannot see how you can push one end of a bag in one end of your mould and the other end of your bag in the other end of your mold and have them meet in the middle, as far I can see when you Vacuumed your bag it would just colapse on it self so no pressure on the Molding ???Regards DM
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Steve Broad
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 408,
Visits: 4.1K
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+x+x+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, both ends were open and the bag was pushed in both ends and met in the middle. I Steve, I still cannot see how you can push one end of a bag in one end of your mould and the other end of your bag in the other end of your mold and have them meet in the middle, as far I can see when you Vacuumed your bag it would just colapse on it self so no pressure on the Molding ???Regards DM Yeah, I thought that at first, but it actually works :-) You suck the air out of the volume between the bag and the mould, regardless of what side the bag is. The air between the bag sections pushed into the openings is inside the bag so it is sucked out. Trust me, it works :-)  
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Eddie Walsh
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 52,
Visits: 294
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xA bit like this. Hi Steve Thanks, I can see your mould has an opening on top, but is the other end also open like mine?? Regards DM Yes, it's my intake tube to the turbo. There is now a flange on the rectangle end to connect to the next section and a flange to bolt to the turbo. Hi Steve, Thanks, so was the rectangle end of your Mould blanked off for Vacuum bagging and then when released from mould you cut out the rectangle end, is that correct, again Thanks for your help, Regards DM No, both ends were open and the bag was pushed in both ends and met in the middle. I Steve, I still cannot see how you can push one end of a bag in one end of your mould and the other end of your bag in the other end of your mold and have them meet in the middle, as far I can see when you Vacuumed your bag it would just colapse on it self so no pressure on the Molding ???Regards DM Yeah, I thought that at first, but it actually works :-) You suck the air out of the volume between the bag and the mould, regardless of what side the bag is. The air between the bag sections pushed into the openings is inside the bag so it is sucked out. Trust me, it works :-) Hi Steve,I trust you, but as you say I still cannot see it, so if you are right then with my Airbox with 3 openings I do not have to blank off the openings just stuff the bag through the rectangle one and push it through the other two then pull the other end of the bag right over my Mould to the end with the two openings and seal it off, vacuum and let it cure, so again Thanks for all your help and patience, Regards DM
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Hanaldo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 28K
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It is exactly the same method that Easy Composites used in their first pre-preg tutorial video. Watch here from about 15 minutes in and pay attention to how they make the bag meet itself inside the mould by feeding it in from two sides: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ1Q4XmItN0In all honesty, I think tubes and things with a single opening on each end are best done with internal vacuum bagging methods as you described where the bag is pushed through the inside of the mould and pulled back over the outside and sealed onto itself. But for parts like this airbox where you have two openings on the one side, although you can make an internal bag work it is much trickier, and so it is just easier to use the method that Easy Composites demonstrate in the video.
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Matt (Staff)
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 680,
Visits: 1.9K
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+x+x+x+x+xHi I have been looking at this Air Box and trying to figure out how I can Vaccum Bag ??? to me looks impossible, so any help appreciated, Regards DM Hi There, Actually, I think you might be overthinking it. Unless there's something I'm missing - I'm assuming that the bottom face which we can't see it completely open - The the bag would actually be very simple, it would just need to also be very large (like more than twice the size of the part). I can't see the mould so I don't know if you're planning to envelope bag or tape to the mould flange but the principle would be the same either way. If the bag was large enough you could just feed two 'socks' of bag into the inlet tubes and then would blank off at the mouth of the tubes (again, I can't see the mould but I assume the mould too blanks off at the mouth of these inlet tubes). As Steve has posted we also don't know what the rectangle is but I'm assuming it's just a cuboid shaped recess which is fully closed off, in which case you could just bag around this using the huge excesses of bag I'm suggesting again too. If you were envelope bagging then just imagine an absolutely massive bag with the part and mould inside and the bag sealed all around. When you do this you can picture yourself just stuffing bag into those two inlets (as though you'd fashioned some tube shapes from the big bag and fed them into these inlets) and then and the rest into the main area. I hope this helps but if I've missed something then let me know! Hi Matt, Thanks, as yet I have not made the Mould ( The Pic I got Online) so just trying to figure out how to go about it, this is just to top part of the air box as the bottom rectangular portion is completely open as the Air Filter sits between the top and bottom portion, also the 2 round tube sections are completely open, and also the ends of the tubes have quite a hefty Flange which is used to bolt to the MAF's ?/ so how would I go about these flanges as well, again I will enclose 2 more pics, and thanks for all your help, I will get to make some CF parts very very soon with your help,Regards DM Well, the inlet tubes would have been blanked off in the mould and then cut open when the part is trimmed. Knowing that will probably change how you think about the bagging. As for the flanges, they are quite likely to be separate components that are bonded on afterwards but they don't have to be. I can't really see from the images but you could either make them as separate parts or set up removable barriers on the mould to form these flanges. Hi Matt, Looking at Steve's pic of his mould with both ends open, so looks like he just stuffed one end of his bag through one end of his mould and out the other end, and then pulled the other end of his bag over his mould and back to same end and sealed it there,?? is that correct, as my Airbox is very similar only difference is I have 3 openings, so is there any need for me to Blanks off the round open ends of mine, again thanks, Regards DM The blanking off was not really to make the bagging easier or possible (it's both of these things with or without the blanking), I was only pointing out that blanking off these opening on the moulding would be quite a normal way to make the mould (which you've not done yet). There's a lot of posts and input on this now so I'll try not to confuse matters any more for you. There is no problem bagging the shape you want to bag, with or without blanking off some of the inlets and as Hanaldo has pointed out I think we've covered well the basic principle of bagging a tubular shape in our airbox video where you can see that the principle would be the same whether you have one, two or more openings. Make your mould with confidence, when you get to the bagging stage, it will be do-able!
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