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Kirk
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6,
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Hi guys, I've been on here for a while, I originally looked into making a direct replacement dash centre console, but quickly came to realise the only option was to skin it. Any way, in the end, I got a company to do the centres for 3 cars for me so I could get pictures, get them up on my website and offer them for sale, these would have been done to order and I was promised they would take a week. So, with a week in mind, a customer let us borrow his dash to be sent off in the return that they get it for cost price. 2 months on, we are now only just looking at possibly getting the parts back, obviously this isn't a model I can run with for my business. They were going to have my entire car to do doors, roof, boot, etc etc, but on the current time scales, it'd prob take me a year to get it back. So, I am back at looking to do carbon myself. Anyway, on to my main point........ I am looking to clear the double garage out and skin my entire car, in fact, we are actually looking at doing 3 cars all in, which will all be demo cars for my tuning company. I would like to, once I have the hang of using carbon more, make the panels such as the roof, doors, boot, wings, bonnet, spoiler, mirrors etc completely from carbon in an OE style. Is the door, boot and bonnet possible to do matching OE style and use original locks, latches, door cards, windows etc? But, to start, I shall remove the windows from the car and skin it. I have worked out that I have approx 25sqm to cover on the car, so im looking at 25m2 of 200g 2x2 plus some mistakes and a couple of small practice pieces. How much resin would I need? I'm looking to do it by the 1st black layer of resin, lay carbon, coat of epoxy, 3x coats of epoxy (I am considering spraying this in my spray booth, would this work?), final coat of epoxy (again, looking to possibly spray), sand it all down, leave for a week, 3 coats of laquer, wet flat and another 3 coats of lacquer, wet flat 800, leave for 2-4 weeks, wet flat 1200, 2000, 2500 polish. Is there any advice, hint, tips etc etc that anyone can offer?
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Fasta
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Group: Forum Members
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Firstly I would say that if you have no experience with this kind of process that you are taking on a very big and risky job especially if it is expected to satisfy customers.
Next a black resin coat will not have a very good coverage like a black paint if you are expecting to hide an underlying colour. Best to use a black etch primer.
Then lay your carbon, build up resin coats while not fully cured just so it fills weave faster. Use a specific coating epoxy.
Then sand and two pack clear finish. |
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davro
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Group: Forum Members
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As Fasta said if you have no experience with this process then Skinning a complete car first off is kinda silly, and I personally see many problems with doing this door/bonnet/boot gaps, edges that will delaminate if knocked, window rubbers that will not fit properly once skinned and not to mention the sanding that is a serious amount of preparation skinning, sanding, sanding, sanding and preparation, clear coating, sanding, sanding, sanding, compounding, compounding, polishing, polishing !!!! I would say it's a silly idea to start with and I mean no offense by that  Personally, I'm not a big fan of skinning parts I have done some test parts but I really can't see the point of going through all that effort to make a part that is basically a facade and heavier than the existing part. There are Exceptions of course like the Gun example in easy composites video where they strengthen a broken wooden gun stock. But if I wanted the carbon look then I would just wrap the car with a decent 3M or Avery vinyl wrap then the process could be reversed. I would sooner bite the bullet and make the moulds and create pure carbon products you will learn at lot by following and studying pahanes work http://www.talkcomposites.com/15710/Carbon-doors-R35. There are parts of the car like the rear quarter panels on normal car that are welded in place you could make pure carbon parts for ... these "could" be a case for skinning, but really is there a market for full car skinning, when vinyl wraps done well nowadays are pretty decent looking ... 
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Hanaldo
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Group: Forum Members
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As above. There is a serious potential to do some real damage to customers cars. You really should start with skinning something much smaller so you can get a feel for how carbon handles and what is going to go wrong. Davro also raises a good point about panel fitment. With skinning you will be adding a thickness of at least 2mm, probably closer to 3mm. That's enough to really mess up your panel alignment and trim fitment. Anyway, I think this is something you should think very carefully about. There's a good reason the company you hired took 2 months to do the dash, skinning is very labour intensive. I've been running a carbon fibre business for almost 3 years, and there's no way in hell I would take this on.
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Kirk
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 6,
Visits: 205
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Hi guys, Thank you for your replies. I see exactly where you're all coming from. I wanted to do this just for myself really. We are building a demo car for the business, and I love carbon fibre, as do most, but I don't like just seeing the odd panel, I think that looks tacky. So, after discussions with others closely involved with my business, we decided a full carbon car is the way to go, they also decided they wanted to do theirs to. It may not be everyones taste, but it will undoubtedly attract a lot of attention. People will first be drawn to the exterior, then they will see all of the engine work, etc. I get exactly what you say with regards to panel gaps, I had actually thought of this myself, but didn't realise it would be quite that much, I admit, 3mm a panel is cutting it a little fine. I had also considered the idea of making the panels that i can from carbon instead of skinning them. To be honest, this would be my preferred option, then just skin the rear quarters. The reason I was going for skinning although I know it's obviously time consuming (And i know how long prep work takes as I have a paint shop), was purely cost. I would like the car done in time to unveil at a show in 2017. I worked out that skinning would cost approx £1500 for the entire car, whereas resin infused parts would cost approx £300 for a mold then £320 for the part (bonnet). Plus the cost of the vacuum pump, catch tank, making an oven etc etc. Admittedly if I could make a nice part, I then have a mold to produce further items and thereby covering my costs. Which to be honest, would be a dream, but I don't want to come along and assume I can smash out parts good for resale straight away. There are some parts that I shall definitely skin, such as interior door handle grabs, steering wheel controls etc etc, this is because they are only for aesthetics anyway, and by skinning, you can retain all the original clips making it a simple replacement part rather than a part than needs to be bonded in.
I did see them doors by Pahanes, pretty sexual I must admit!!!! I just hope my doors look like that when it comes to making them.
After just this quick discussion, I do feel that to make the full parts is the way to go, it was just the cost and time that put me off. So, I think I shall probably start off with some simple skinning on the interior and make a full carbon bonnet. So expect plenty more questions etc on doing this, lol.
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Fasta
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 468,
Visits: 3.5K
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Ok then. Lets do it! I am sure there are plenty of techniques and tips and everyone will chip in with their 2c. This is what I would consider. Spray the car with black etch primer. I have some single pack stuff yet it is labeled as epoxy etch coat?? Abrade the etch coat and lay out your carbon. You can do it dry and wet through with the epoxy resin (surfboard style) which will help with getting the fibre to lay well and look right. I am sure you have seen others do a tack coat of epoxy too, I believe this is better for smaller and detail parts so the fabric can be stuck into details better and it stays. Downside is that it is harder to lay down straight and you likely can't just pull it back off without making a mess of the material. Another technique is to use a light mist of spray glue like 3M super 77 to hold the material in place and then wet through with your epoxy resin. Next, once the carbon has tacked off quite well but not fully cured float on a coat of a specific epoxy coating resin to help fill the weave. Let this coat fully cure. Sand back back the epoxy resin coat without sanding into the carbon too much. It can touch the carbon here and there but don't rub too far. Next coat is the Duratec Sunshield, this is like another filler coat but this stuff is far easier to sand than epoxies. You can go straight 180grit or 240grit. Then 600 and 800 wet sanding. Then the two part paint clear coats.
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Sequeira
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Group: Forum Members
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Skinning on rusted iron hollow tubes. A sturcture of Radio Antenna made from iron tubes has holes from aging and rust. Can CFRP skinning be used to regain the strength and increase the life. Or will it further degrade the life by enhancing rusting process?
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Coxo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 39,
Visits: 476
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Hi fasta where do u buy that duratec sun sheid from ?
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Coxo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 39,
Visits: 476
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Hi fasta where do you buy the duratec sun shield from
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Fasta
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 468,
Visits: 3.5K
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In Australia I buy it from ATL composites in Queensland.
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