First try, first problems


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wochi
wochi
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Hi all!

I´m doing my first jobs in carbon and i´m having some problems.
When applying the first coat of resin to the mold, it won´t stick and i can´t make an even coat. When curing it starts to make voids in the middle of the mould. Probably because of the release agent. How can i fix this? I tried to make the part anyway and a got tons of holes in the surface like you can see in the photo.
http://i41.tinypic.com/14uyk9g.jpg
Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you!
fgayford
fgayford
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Hello
The chemical release agents are very slick so its impossible to brush a layer down and have it not bead up. You didn't mention if you vacuum bagged this part or did you just do a wet layup like is done with polyester glass manufacture of parts.
We need a bit more information.
Fred
wochi
wochi
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Thanks for your answer.
I followed the steps in the laminatating video from carbonmods. So what i did was, apply a coat of resin in the mould, let it cure to a tack apply the carbon cloth and resin again. I have the mold for the both sides of the part so i did the same on the other side and clamped them together and let them cure at ambient temperature for 24h.
wochi
wochi
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i tried to apply a coat on top of the part just to see the result and the same thing is happening. That´s what i get in the mould also. I can´t get an even coat of resin.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25p4j7m.jpg
TomDesign
TomDesign
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everything is simple i have same nonsence!

you need to change first piece of cloth that you clean surface as it has wax inside until i not changed everytime was same like on your photo.

or also nefrase that you cleaning surface after brushing as some bad things from cleaning cloth can be into that. BUT I KNOW THAT GOONA BE CLEANING BAD CLOTH! CHANGE AND YOU BE GOOD.

or if piece you lay resin from mold or infusion then that mean surface has wax so resin not stick and act like this!
wochi
wochi
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It´s a possibility in this last photo as i wasn´t to cautious with the cleaning. was just a test. But when i apply to the mould there is a release agent there so is it normal to do like this? If you see the carbonmods video about laminating you can see the this doesn´t happen! And if i donºt have a proper coat of resin i will have pinholes in the part!
I tried anothe coat after in this part but i overapplied resin. I could get a coat but not very eaven as there was too much resin and was dripping all over the place :S
Paulh37
Paulh37
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Hi looking at the second picture this looks like what you call fish eyes, there is maybe silicone or some other product on the part that is causing a reaction, you get the same effect when painting a car panel that has come into contact with a silicone product i.e. polish or cleaning agent, maybe someone else with the knowledge could I am only going by the picture and basing it on what it looks like rather than experience of resins 
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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What I think your problem is on the second picture is that you did not clean the part so there was still release agent on the part causing the same problems you have in your mould...
When you demould a part you need to wash it with some hot water with a bit of soap.

What type of release agent are you using? wax or a chemical on? 
How it mostly work out for me is wait a bit till the gelcoat gets a bit thicker from curing. You gently keep on brushing till all the 'gaps' are filled. But do not brush it to long while it is curing or it will start
to peel of a bit with your brush, let it cure a bit till a tacky state and apply a second layer, wait for it to go tacky and then add you CF.

http://youtu.be/kKCZ__0ziyg?t=1m30s something similar to what I did in this video

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




Shaneer22
Shaneer22
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From my experience wet lay up will never yield perfect cosmetic parts alway hit and miss,infusion is better but not    Always perfect either,regarding your laminating after because your adding resin,use 80 to 120 even if you cut into  the Carbon dont worry resin is viscous enough to fill scratchs left and using these grades,and gives the surface a good bonding surface just remember to clean with acetone or sp Solent A and clean down,good luck. 
FLD
FLD
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I do a fair bit of wetlay / vacbag stuff.  I have also encountered this problem.  Firstly the layer of resin, yeah it does that!  Its just beading on the release agent.  If its gelcoat you can do as mentioned and wait for it to thicken up a bit and it should spread OK.  If its resin and you're wanting to laminate straight away then its just how it is but don't be disheartened!

Secondly the bubbles in the surface.  Woven cloths wet out sooooo much easier than CSM in my experience and its easy to think its properly wet / consolidated.  This will give the little bubbles in the surface!  You really do need to work the resin through the cloth thoroughly in order to stop these bubbles.  This is key!  You may still get one or two on the cross over of the weave pattern (pinholes).  These are a PITA.  If you try to apply resin straight to it then you will get fish-eyes around the pin hole due to the change in surface tension.  I use a different method to fill them.

Pinholes- I use a highly thinned 2-pack lacquer and a brush to work the lacquer right into the pinholes. It takes a few coats but works.  Then spray it.  Dust on coats and let it tack in between until you get a full film and then lay down full coats.  If you film it straight away then you will get fish eyes again. 

Keep trying, you'll get there!
GO

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