I want to do a cosmetic skinning to my work desk, using spread-tow 15mm 2/2 twill


I want to do a cosmetic skinning to my work desk, using spread-tow 15mm 2/2 twill
Author
Message
TDShimo
TDShimo
Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7, Visits: 65
I would like to freshen the look of my workstation by applying a carbon fibre skin to this desktop. This application means that the carbon fibre won't need to have any structural strength, merely cosmetic. I'd like to use a large-pattern cloth, like spread-tow 15mm 2/2 twill. You can see from the photos that the desk is a boomerang shape, with a number of different curves. The dimensions of the desk are [EDIT: Changed specs - it's larger, critically, in the max depth] 43 1/4" max depth, 88 5/8" width, and approximately 1" thick, with a few other contours shown (or, 1.1M x 2.25M x 25mm). I'd like it to have a high-gloss finish, or possibly, a nice, even matte finish with some texture. The substrate is some kind of fibre-reinforced resin. I'd like to wet lay the CF on the desktop, and wrap it around underneath just enough so it is cosmetically pleasing (though not cover the underside). 

Questions: 
- Is a 15mm 2/2 twill appropriate for this application (with these contours), or am I looking at a challenging application?
- How many layers would be necessary?
- Does the 0.95M + 25mm (x2) dimension present a problem with standard fabric sizes/rolls?
- Is it reasonable to expect a nice, even, glossy finish without using a mould? Or, would it be more appropriate to try for a matte finish? 
- If this project is feasible, is there a kit available from Easy Composites that would be appropriate?


Thanks for your guidance!

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/094d3110-530c-4e3d-96e1-7b1b.png




http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/25e4b937-8999-47b8-9b8f-dce.jpeg

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/80d8bcd4-ca86-48fb-b3c0-d3d.jpeg
Edited 11 Years Ago by TDShimo
Dravis
Dravis
Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 592, Visits: 1.9K
Getting the spread tow to conform around the sharp edges at the back will probably be very difficult, if not impossible. the same goes for the front edges, even though they are rounded.

I'm currently working on a set of bathroom washbasins, they have a 25 mm radius over an angle of about 70 degrees, an that has proven a bit of a challenge ...Wow

The corners will be the biggest challenge

If I were to do a skinning of your desk, i would go for an edge around the desk, made from something like twill weave CF, and have the spread tow only on the flat surface.

"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW!

The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind...

103% of all people do not understand statistics...

Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
TDShimo
TDShimo
Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7, Visits: 65
Outstanding, Dravis - that's *exactly* what I was hoping to learn (and was worried about). Thanks for your response. When you say "conform," are you talking about keeping the alignment relatively straight? And, would this be alleviated somewhat with a smaller pattern - like a 7.5mm spread tow? I love the large pattern... 

... but I do like the idea of doing two patterns, with a twill on the edges. I just fear that I'll have difficulty in getting it even... having it even is more important to me than having it dead straight. 

And, how many layers would you think? 
Hanaldo
Hanaldo
Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)Supreme Being (21K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K, Visits: 28K
The alignment would be one difficulty, but actually getting the spread tow to stick to the table around the corners would be the main issue. Carbon is naturally stiff, it won't want to go around corners like that without vacuum holding it in place. It will lift off the table around the edges and not look very nice at all. 
Dravis
Dravis
Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)Supreme Being (5.1K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 592, Visits: 1.9K
As "hanaldo" writes, the difficulty is in keeping the CF spread tow to "stay in place" ... it can not be done without something keeping it in place around the edge, thats for sure. This does not need to be vacuum, but could be tape.

It will be very difficult to keep a nice straight pattern with spread tow on the edges, if not impossible. Thats why I suggest a twill edge. The border between the twill and spread tow, can be made very nice and sharp by letting the spread tow cure to a slight tack, then cutting the wetted out spread tow on the flat surface, and then very carefully lifting it up at the edge, and putting the twill UNDER the spread tow edge.

an easier way is to paint a solid coloured line on top to cover any imperfections in the edge between spread tow and twill.

You will need only one layer, if you use black coloured epoxy "base-coat"  (see the EC "skinning" tutorial video)

To make the surface durable and strong, use a 2 component clear coat, or if you can not do that yourself take the table top to a car paintshop and get it clear-coated.

You can get a very nice structured surface by using peel-ply on top, remove it, and have the car paintshop clear-coat it with several layers of a "satin" clear coat.
leave the edges without peel-ply ... Smile or polish them shiny with rubbing compound an ... many possibilities ... BigGrin

Good luck!  It will look stunning if done properly ...

"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW!

The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind...

103% of all people do not understand statistics...

Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
Edited 11 Years Ago by Dravis
TDShimo
TDShimo
Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7, Visits: 65
Okay, so I'm not sure if any of you are still tracking this thread, but, here are the results... *thank you all for your help.* Your advice was so helpful, and I'm really appreciative. 

- I ended up using 5.7oz 2x2 twill
- Rather than skin the existing desktop, I recreated the desktop itself from an MDF panel, and skinned that
- I laid it down using 3M Super 90 spray adhesive, rather than epoxy, and got bubbles (big mistake; see below)
- I finished it using a two-part bartop epoxy

I'm happy with the finished product, but with everything I've learned (and all the many things I've built since then), I'm eager to redo the project and make it perfect. It looks incredible in person, but the blemishes are apparent (bubbles, mostly). Plus, the bartop epoxy has amazing optical clarity and durability, AND it allowed me to build-up multiple coats to level-out the bubbles, but it's more glossy than I'd like. v2.0 will be perfectly flat, and I'll do a matte finish. 

The results; I turned this: 

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3cH1Nxh9Gng/VHNZjlB1faI/AAAAAAAAEcg/VfbFyD-bo9U/w973-h494-no/CloseDesk.jpeg

Into this...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ffk42bh-ICTLFcJlO7-tKSzIopxJnH_YrD2_MgTST5Q=w947-h663-no
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vy0LXhJGBnk/VHNaArYy6OI/AAAAAAAAEio/a9nHyBXn7HU/w884-h663-no/IMG_3202.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TQgEJmAX11k/VHNaD5g3wgI/AAAAAAAAEjM/IX5sbFxkEKM/w884-h663-no/IMG_3207.JPG


Rather than skinning the existing desktop, I created a template and replicated the form using a sheet of MDF, shot it with black paint, and skinned that. 

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8dCKDH1Csw0/VHNZqjcRD7I/AAAAAAAAEd8/4i3_2MqQIu8/w884-h663-no/IMG_3092.JPG


Hand-shaped it with a jigsaw, circular saw, rasp, and sander:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oXoPrEG8UKw/VHNZ2MHa43I/AAAAAAAAEgU/BLRzVPCLalI/w497-h663-no/IMG_3115.JPG


It turned out perfectly... the blank, anyway:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z9Xesjb4c2s/VHNZ6ZI5xRI/AAAAAAAAEhQ/AggFOJknIzc/w497-h663-no/IMG_3126.JPG


And this is where things went all pear-shaped. I didn't want to mess with tack times on the epoxy while using a large sheet of fabric for the first time... especially given that I had very little extra fabric for wrapping around the edges (the 50" width left me with only 1" of tolerance) so I used 3M spray adhesive to hold the fabric to the substrate. While this may work for small parts, it didn't work for this application...

It looked great when dry:

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/ffaed6f2-7795-476e-8832-fb46.JPG


... but once I did the epoxy, I got major bubbling that I couldn't get rid of. Had I known how easy it was to even-out epoxy with a sander, I might have just covered the whole mess with plastic and weighed it down, but I let it cure. I floated it with a bartop 

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/6475b302-f589-4230-88c8-e980.JPG
fgayford
fgayford
Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)Supreme Being (3.6K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 433, Visits: 1.2K
Hello
Just curious. Why didn't you just follow the tried and proven skinning method described on this web site?
You brush on the black surface coat and when almost tack free state you apply the carbon and smooth it down and apply the clear epoxy in a number of layers. When cured, you flat sand/ and 2k clear/ compound to what ever sheen you desire. Its perfect!
I have done this a number of times without any problems. I am about to skin my entire airplane dash with this method. This dash has some very complex shapes.
Fred  
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 955, Visits: 3.4K
Some sanding and recoating might give you beter results, did it on a ironman mask 

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/24b86f2c-41c5-4bef-9ca9-74ad.JPG


you can find the full tutorial on here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMSaPzoohHY

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




TDShimo
TDShimo
Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)Forum Member (45 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7, Visits: 65
fgayford - I didn't use the "tried and true" methods principally because this was the first time I have worked with any of the materials. I'd never even seen raw carbon fiber fabric before this, and hadn't worked with epoxy at all. With the fabric, I had so little extra material in the 50"-wide roll for wrapping that I wanted to maximize working time and flexibility, as well as achieving a strong wrap on the edges without bagging. So I made a novice's judgment call and, after watching videos with the spray adhesive technique, determined that it'd be optimal to try this method. I also didn't know two things with the epoxy: tack time, and sandability. I felt that I'd screw up tack time and end up either getting poor adhesion, or having unevenness that wouldn't be sandable. Had I known these attributes, I would have approached it differently. 

matthieutje65 - yes, that is an excellent tutorial, but I needed to develop a bit more skill before being able to really pull that off. Now, of course, I'm in a much more confident spot, and have learned a lot about the materials' properties and how they can be manipulated.  
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)Supreme Being (7.5K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 955, Visits: 3.4K
It's by trial and error you will learn Wink but you can be proud of the results you got, it's a badass looking desk you have there!
vacuum would improve some of your problems

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Similar Topics

Reading This Topic

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search