Talk Composites - The Forum for Advanced Composites
Back
Login
Register
Login
Register
Home
»
Advanced Composites Forum
»
Pre-Pregs
»
Cumbersome surface layer *product request*
Cumbersome surface layer *product request*
Post Reply
Like
2
Prev
1
2
Jump To Page
Cumbersome surface layer *product request*
View
Flat Ascending
Flat Descending
Threaded
Options
Subscribe to topic
Print This Topic
Goto Topics Forum
Author
Message
morepower
morepower
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 242,
Visits: 1.2K
Tominator (03/09/2013)
Is that the PRF material?
No this is another material supplied by SHD.. I tried it a year ago when I first started and it was full of pin holes but was nice and clear just a shame about all the pin holes... But a year later and a few parts made since I started I have learned quite a lot, even though I still have a LONG way to go before I am happy. (you always keep learning more so that never stops but I still feel I have a lot to learn before I can be confident that I can take on customer work and be happy)
It is harder to get a good surface compared to easypreg/ VTF261 but it can be done... The material the original poster is using is the easiest to use of all the Out of Autoclave materials.. If you cannot get perfect parts with that you would struggle with any other material.. But it is about getting everything just right... The material he is using does not need changing to improve its finish and ALL of the other manufacturers have been trying to copy it for years and none have got it right. The down side is you either pay Easy Composites prices or IF you want to buy direct you have to now buy 50sq/m of the material as a minimum order.. That is why I have been testing other materials and all of them need different lay ups and breather stacks and/or cooked differently ect.. So there is no one way that works for every material... Again Tom another reason someone showing you how it is done may not work if you change anything or have to use a different materiale ect.. Even how the oven works and how fast it heats up will make a difference.. So one oven my be perfect but use another without knowing the different way it works may leave you with parts that do not look right... My first attempt was not good but this one is perfect... It is due to more experience and knowing my box oven will work how it needs to for the material to flow and then cure at the correct rate.
Reply
Like
3
cpkielycua
cpkielycua
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 29,
Visits: 285
My results look just like the pictures posted......but they have pinholes. In certain lights they look absolutely perfect, in others one can see the pinholes. These are very very small pinholes, but there nonetheless. My layup was sealed under the vac bladder, so all the epoxy stayed within the laminate, none was lost, but there were still pinholes. I cant imagine how this happens if the layup retained all the epoxy. In many cases the bag surface comes out perfectly and the tool surface suffers. Confounding.
I think the holes are so small such that the surface tension will not effect a clearcoat overspray, so this is my next technique.
Id like to get a UV clearcoat spray in mold before layup so it pops out ready to polish.
At this point its half a question of a flawed part and half the ethereal lust for the perfect finish out of the mold. Im sure many of you feel the same way.
Reply
Like
3
carboncactus
carboncactus
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 243,
Visits: 1K
What backing material are you using?
Reply
Like
3
cpkielycua
cpkielycua
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 29,
Visits: 285
I must confess, I know this might be taboo........ but I leave the textured carrier layer on the last ply. It really is the perfect release layer. It is already intimately bonded with the prepreg, it is textured so it acts like a breather, it is thermally stable past where I cure, it does not absorb/retain any epoxy, I have had no problems with it. If I could design a non porous breather/breather it would be the carrier material.
My vacuum bag is a brush on silicon bladder made from the mould. It also works great, and is reusable. Only takes a few minutes to set up and no bag/ gum tape frustration I would highly recommend)
Reply
Like
3
carboncactus
carboncactus
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 243,
Visits: 1K
I mean backing carbon. What do you mean by "textured carrier layer"? Peel ply?
Edited
12 Years Ago by
carboncactus
Reply
Like
3
cpkielycua
cpkielycua
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 29,
Visits: 285
I use the surfacing layer, then 2 layers of the 220g backing with a few strips of 220 reinforcment
Reply
Like
3
cpkielycua
cpkielycua
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 29,
Visits: 285
I use the surfacing layer, then 2 layers of the 220g backing with a few strips of 220 reinforcment
Reply
Like
3
carboncactus
carboncactus
posted 12 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 243,
Visits: 1K
Must be lack of full vacuum, or curing ramp.
Reply
Like
3
20_rc51_00
20_rc51_00
posted 11 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 95,
Visits: 548
what is your oven ramp temps, ultimate temp and dwell time?
I would assume that with a slow/proper ramp (even lengthened might not hurt but help) the resin can decrease in visc and flow gradually with even saturation and air removal. maintaining the proper temp will allow the resin to cure and set at a reasonable pace for all this to happen as well. If the temp is too much too soon the resin might go through these phases too quick and cause air entrapment instead of gradual escape and saturation which might be the result of pinholes.
Morepower, should he not extend the breather over the surface layer that is sitting on the flange? This porvides the only exit path for air if he has carbon>nonperf release> breather, since the breather isnt' really doing much if if it's sitting over an impervious release film without direct contact through a peel ply on the flanges or over a portion of perforated release film. Where is he going to get the air migration out of the stack? I will try and draw a pic to describe this.
Reply
Like
3
morepower
morepower
posted 11 Years Ago
ANSWER
HOT
Post Details
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 242,
Visits: 1.2K
20_rc51_00 (25/01/2014)
what is your oven ramp temps, ultimate temp and dwell time?
I would assume that with a slow/proper ramp (even lengthened might not hurt but help) the resin can decrease in visc and flow gradually with even saturation and air removal. maintaining the proper temp will allow the resin to cure and set at a reasonable pace for all this to happen as well. If the temp is too much too soon the resin might go through these phases too quick and cause air entrapment instead of gradual escape and saturation which might be the result of pinholes.
Morepower, should he not extend the breather over the surface layer that is sitting on the flange? This porvides the only exit path for air if he has carbon>nonperf release> breather, since the breather isnt' really doing much if if it's sitting over an impervious release film without direct contact through a peel ply on the flanges or over a portion of perforated release film. Where is he going to get the air migration out of the stack? I will try and draw a pic to describe this.
I wrap breather over the whole part. Front and back of the mould. I do try and avoid bunching or more than one layer of breather anywhere on the actual part though as you lose surface pressure of the bag pushing down into the part. I do ramp up slowly and I dwell at the lower temperature for a while OR cure fully at the lower temp as it gives the maximum flow time for the resin....
Reply
Like
3
GO
Merge Selected
Merge into selected topic...
Merge into merge target...
Merge into a specific topic ID...
Open Merge
Post Reply
Like
2
Prev
1
2
Jump To Page
Similar Topics
Post Quoted Reply
Reading This Topic
Login
Login
Remember Me
Reset Password
Resend Validation Email
Login
Facebook
Google
Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search