Closed CF Shell Manufacture


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LaxFriedrichs
LaxFriedrichs
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Currently I'm undertaking my first CF project, which involves manufacturing a 'closed' shell from CF. My skills, knowledge, and equipment are relatively basic so I'm making two sides of the shell via resin infusion and a Unimould system mould, then I will join them to get my 'closed shell' 

Not long ago I saw a Youtube video that was shared on here at the Koenigsegg factory. They seemed to be using CNC milled aluminium moulds, composed of two parts, some how laying the CF inside the parts, closing the mould, and then passing a inflatable bladder through two ends.

Like this...


I'm intrigued by this method, since joining the two sides of my shell will be a very tricky process resulting in an aesthetically and structurally inferior product.

How is the CF placed in the two halves of the mould? Where does one source an inflatable bladder? Would this process be compatible for resin infusion?

Thanks!
wozza
wozza
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Some pics or a drawing of the proposed part would  make answering easier.Wink

The process you describe in the video sounds like they are using pre-preg. That method is not possible with infusion.
The Rear Wing I make is Infused in two halves. trimmed and then bonded together, the join is barely noticeable. If you use a split mould then the two halves will match up perfectly. I increase the layers of carbon on the join line to increase the area of the bonding surface. If you can access the inside once the two halves are bonded together you can always wet lay a strip of carbon along the inside of the join if you wish.

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
LaxFriedrichs
LaxFriedrichs
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Thanks Wozza - your rear wing is highly impressive!Smile

It's difficult to describe the part and I have no drawings. However, the outer shell geometry of this glider fuselage is about right. With an opening at the front "cockpit" and at the back. In intend to create an epoxy casting of the cockpit interior and once fixed into the shell, fill with expanding low density polyurethane from the back end.

The part will encounter some stress and strain from all directions in usage - think relatively high density fluids flowing at high speed around and into the shell outer contours. 

For this reason, I'm keen to understand the strongest way to bond the shell together before several strips of CF are put over the outer and inner seam.

You also mentioned increasing bonding area at the seam edge - any advice about this would be very useful.

Cheers!
carboncactus
carboncactus
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This thread might be right up your street:

http://www.compositescentral.net/showthread.php?t=7007

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/db628ad5-e0e7-47b9-873a-3d84.png
LaxFriedrichs
LaxFriedrichs
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An excellent thread, thanks CC. I have joined that forum also!
Edited 11 Years Ago by LaxFriedrichs
Drew Diller
Drew Diller
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Hey there LaxFriedrichs, I am also heavily interested in bladder inflation molding.

I've gotten close to success recently after some frustrating missteps early on. Here's what I can tell you.

Those recommendations on fuse molding some mylar sheet in a specific pattern did not work for me. The bladder would blow at only 30 psi. I've since been told that I should have done my dry-run tests with some dry fiberglass cloth to ensure that no part of the bladder snags at the flashing line.

NO ONE seems to want to make a prototype inflation bladder. No one answers their email save for PolyTech Synergies LLC, and even then their prices are more oriented toward batch processing. They were kind and professional to me, but I just couldn't afford what they were asking.

So - let's talk about how to make your own bladder.

I've tried Smooth On EZ Brush silicone. I probably used too much, frankly. I reduced the volume of my mold, put silicone in one half,  rested a near-shaped polystyrene plug in the middle, poured on an excess of silicone over the top half of the plug, and closed the mold. It was messy but silicone rubber that soft is easy to clean up mechanically. It doesn't stick very strong.

After the rubber cured, I melted out the plug with acetone, the deconstructed volume of polysterene foam is amazingly small, about 1/40th reduction, that is not a typo.

Both attempts failed and had to do with poor inflation neck design. If I were to try it again, I'd actually brush it on a plug in multiple coats.

So, speaking of brushing on in multiple coats, here's a cheaper material: latex. This stuff or, even easier, this stuff. The former you brush on a plug, the latter you dip the plug into a container. The former can put on a lot of thickness in one coat, but each coat takes a long time for the solvents to evaporate, not to mention the need for wearing a VOC mask. The latter smells less offensive but I wear a mask just to be safe. More interestingly, the latter thinned latex can have its per-layer cure time significantly reduced with a heat gun - you'll know you're getting close when it goes from off white to a pale yellow. So if you want to put in some extra sweat equity in terms of heating each layer carefully, you can get a result faster than with brushing. I did a basic test very recently with the dipping latex and achieved 2mm thickness in 90 minutes, a vast improvement.

Latex, however cheap and relatively easy to fabricate with, will stick to epoxy, so you need to wax the bladder before laying up fiber and epoxy around it.

The basic process (having not actually practiced it yet, mind you) with a finished bladder: pour some sand inside your bladder or lightly inflate it, lay up your fiber and epoxy, pour the sand out / let the air out, insert into one half of the mold and close the mold. Inflate the bladder, and heat / wait for epoxy cure. Then de mold and hope that both your bladder and mold have been polished and lubricated enough to allow release.

I have not yet produced a BIM part. However, recently, I *did* succeed in blowing my mold apart in one place! After which even a 4mm thick bladder blew up at that location. The second I have a successful part you can bet I'll put up a tutorial.
Edited 11 Years Ago by Drew Diller
LaxFriedrichs
LaxFriedrichs
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Buy that man a drink!Exclamation Drew, your reply is most appreciated. 

A tutorial would be cracking! We like photos tooBigGrin
Ledon Racing
Ledon Racing
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I've used normal vac bags many times as inflatable bladders, sealed with normal tacky type I've had them up to 100 psi in billet ally tooling.

www.LedonRacing.com

Professional motorsport services
& composite production / repairs.



Drew Diller
Drew Diller
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I'm getting some good results with Polytek Platsil 71-11.

I'm almost done redesigning my mold which couldn't take it, that's a good sign! (I inflated the mold in another room, I'm not that stupid.) I have it down to 3mm thick walls so it still costs a bit of money and I think I can go thinner yet.

Basically this is like the lay-flat bladder technique described here but with easier (to me) and more durable (also more expensive) materials.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/3dd06182-463d-465c-bef4-a0c6.jpg

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/56417414-27c3-4ba8-aff1-a911.jpg
Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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You can try using expanding silicone for the same effect. The heat expansion of silicone can be used to apply pressure to the mould surface in the same way a bladder is used.  Obviously it requires an elevated temperature cure and as such is best suited to pre-preg use.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
GO

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