Beginners' Guide to Out-of-Autoclave Prepreg Carbon Fibre


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Tim Ane
Tim Ane
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Matt (Staff) - 1/20/2013 8:15:25 AM
Hi Matthieu,

Does it mean you lay everything up, put it 4 minutes in an (normal) oven, at 150°C and you can remove your part after 4min for demoulding? Will there be a difference of finish,strength or chemical resistence?


Good question! - In theory, yes, that's about what it means but this only refers to the Vari-Preg prepregs (so the 200g Vari-Preg and the 400g Vari-Preg), not the Easy-Preg surfacing prepreg. The 5min cure time is taken from the manufacturers cure profile datasheet which does indicate a cure time of around 5 mins at 150'C although having worked with this material for years now (at the higher temperatures) I would say that a cure time of more like 15mins-20mins would be preferable even at this hgih temperature to ensure a full and even cure throughout the laminate. Even still, it's a very fast cure at this temperature.

In terms of demoulding, we would always suggest bringing the mould down closer to room temperature before demoulding the part, this ensures the best surface finish quality. If you demould at 150'C (not to mention the fact that the mould is very hot and difficult to handle safely) it's likely that some print through could occur on the surface. We would wait for the mould to be down at maybe 40 or 50'C before demoulding. In a high volume environment this can be done by forced cooling of the mould if necessary.

The Easy-Preg surfacing prepreg also has a variable cure profile and will cure faster at higher temperatures but for the very best surface finish in an oven-only (out of autoclave) environment we recommend a cure temperature of  90-100'C. Curing at a higher temperature does not allow the resin long enough in its liquid state before cure to flow and settle as well as it does curing at 90-100'C so for this reason, when using Vari-Preg with Easy-Preg (i.e. the way we show in the guide and the way they are designed to be used in the Prepreg Starter Kit) then certainly start off with a 90-100'C cure for around 8hrs. By all means experiment yourself after that with different cure profiles but we know you'll get great results from a longer 90-100'C cure when working out-of-autoclave.

I see that for the mouldmaking for prepreg you suggest your uni-mould system, but it goes till 90°C, If you'd like to go to that 150°C what should you do? Aluminum mould, Other resin?
Will all the other materials in the kit go till 150°C?


Uni-Mould is happy enough at 90-100'C which is the recommended cure temperature for this system anyway. Providing a Uni-Mould mould has been correctly post-cured prior to use you will have no problems at all at 100'C and so, given the many advantages to the system (namely realistic price and excellent polishability) then we almost always choose to make our prepreg moulds out of Uni-Mould. For higher temperature moulds, aluminium, stainless steel and high temperature epoxies (including prepreg itself) all make suitable mould materials. In all instances, Easy-Lease Chemical Release Agent will provide a reliable release barrier for the materials mentioned above.

Last question, is there a difference between a throughbag connector and a silicone connector? Because I already have some silicone connectors for resin infusion....


Yes, they're quite different. Rather than me explain here, just take a look at these two product pages (which include a picture and a description). If you've got a Resin Infusion Silicone Connector then you'll recognise that already. Take a look at the Through Bag Connector and you'll see it's quite different. The main reason is that no resin will flow through the junction when doing prepreg so the fitting can be much better and more substantial that one that's designed to have resin flow through it (and cure inside it).

Hello 
my question is about thickness of carbon fiber fabric used in out of autoclave technique. is there any limitation of thickness used in out of autoclave?
in case of 2 mm thick fabric, can curing be possible in oven with 1 atm pressure?

Hanaldo
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I made a 25mm thick solid carbon sheet with X-Preg a few months ago. Worked flawlessly. 
Tim Ane
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Hanaldo - 9/16/2020 2:34:12 PM
I made a 25mm thick solid carbon sheet with X-Preg a few months ago. Worked flawlessly. 

so you had cured sheet in oven at 1 atm pressure. did you find porosity in your specimen? because, in out of autoclave technique there is higher chance of porosity if sample is cured at atmospheric pressure in oven.

Lester Populaire
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Tim Ane - 9/17/2020 9:15:20 AM
Hanaldo - 9/16/2020 2:34:12 PM
I made a 25mm thick solid carbon sheet with X-Preg a few months ago. Worked flawlessly. 

so you had cured sheet in oven at 1 atm pressure. did you find porosity in your specimen? because, in out of autoclave technique there is higher chance of porosity if sample is cured at atmospheric pressure in oven.

debulk every couple layers and you should be fine

Hanaldo
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Oven cured following at 120, vacuum only. I didn't actually debulk at all either. I was using scraps to make a sheet that I could then 3D mill into a dibber. Wanted it thick and very strong, as the plastic dibbers flex too much for my liking. Wasn't concerned about any porosity, and didn't expect it to come out as flawlessly as it did. But it's very good. No pinholes on the surface, no voids in the cross-sections where it has been milled. It is really exactly the same as a 1mm thick sheet.

Under a microscope you may find some imperfections, I haven't inspected it to that level. If I were going for perfection, I would debulk. Especially if you aren't just making a flat sheet. If there's any geometry, then debulk. Glass is also a significantly easier surface to get good results from. If you were using a composite tool, you'd be more likely to hit some porosity issues.
Tim Ane
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Hanaldo - 9/18/2020 4:37:04 AM
Oven cured following at 120, vacuum only. I didn't actually debulk at all either. I was using scraps to make a sheet that I could then 3D mill into a dibber. Wanted it thick and very strong, as the plastic dibbers flex too much for my liking. Wasn't concerned about any porosity, and didn't expect it to come out as flawlessly as it did. But it's very good. No pinholes on the surface, no voids in the cross-sections where it has been milled. It is really exactly the same as a 1mm thick sheet.

Under a microscope you may find some imperfections, I haven't inspected it to that level. If I were going for perfection, I would debulk. Especially if you aren't just making a flat sheet. If there's any geometry, then debulk. Glass is also a significantly easier surface to get good results from. If you were using a composite tool, you'd be more likely to hit some porosity issues.

what does debulking mean in out of autoclave technique?

Hanaldo
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The same as it does in an autoclaved process - placing the entire layup in a vac bag and pulling full vacuum to consolidate the layers and get the air out. Usually done after the first layer, and then every 3 layers.
raygun
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The PDF guide is excellent. Thanks for creating this.
(Am I the only here that hears Matt's voice when reading the guide?)

Edited 5 Years Ago by raygun
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