Poor B side surface on vac infused part


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Balazs Szikszai
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Hi, I've been trying to vacuum infuse basalt fibre using the EC infusion kit with an existing vacuum pump. The mould is made from aluminium, and the A side seems to be coming out really well, but the B side (peel ply side) looks to be aerated between the top few layers every time. I recently changed the direction of flow to run along the part rather than across it, which was an improvement but its still not coming out right. I've tried this 4 times now with various directions and layups but I can't seem to get it to work properly.

I wasn't able to order an EC epoxy as I'm in Australia so have used a local resin supplier. The vac pump pulls a strong vacuum, well under the -30inhg gauge minimum. I haven't degassed the resin.
Is there anything specifically that causes this type of failure?







The left one was resin flow across the part from left to right, and the right piece was flow from top to bottom, having to travel over the bends.

Thanks


Edited 6 Years Ago by bszikszai
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MarkMK
MarkMK
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Leaving the pump running and the outlet open is probably only going to draw resin away from the part and potentially leave the 'A' side looking starved of resin

To ensure that the whole part is sufficiently wetted-out, you need to ensure that things have infused fully so a resin break can be very useful, especially on small-ish parts and leaving the inlet side open for 30 secs to a minute after closing-off the vacuum side should help

Were ambient temperatures at or around 20 degrees during the cure, as the residue left by the stack removal on the 'B' side can be brittle and white-looking where things have cured in colder conditions? I'm also guessing that your slow hardener might require around 48 hours, at least, to fully cure at a reasonable temperature, so you'd need to be wary of de-moulding too early also

From what you've mentioned regarding air bubbles visible and looseness in the bag, it sounds more like evidence of a leak more than any issue with trapped air and I'm not certain if boiling gas is an issue with epoxies? If not doing so already, it's always worth going around all of the perimeter just before allowing in the resin to flow and pressing the bagging tape down firmly once again to ensure that nothing's slightly loosened when pulling the bag down initially

Sometimes a slight leak might occur after closing things off and this can just affect the 'B' side without affecting the surface quality, if you're lucky. Again, might be worth pressing everything down again just in case the introduction of the resin has served to make anything loosen slightly

Even when infusing fairly small parts, I have not seen any benefit in using a de-gassing chamber, as applying a little control to the speed of infusion and ensuring proper wet-out should allow for sufficient de-gassing during the infusion process itself but it might allow you to rule out this area of concern. I know that some people swear by using them, but mine's gathering dust as it really didn't make any noticeably difference and just slowed the process down. Even with quite lengthy degassing, you're still likely to see some air in the infusing resin. 

 
Edited 5 Years Ago by MarkMK
Balazs Szikszai
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Thanks Mark.
I had the same thought about keeping the vac pump on after the infusion i.e. sucking the resin out. I guess it depends on whether its possible to drop it to a token amount.

Its quite hot where I live, with temps in the high 20s and 30s. The epoxy cure time is  around 24 hours, with de-moulding possible after about 10. The humidity on the east coast where I am is frequently above 70% (meant to hit 87 tomorrow) which makes me think it could be a boiling issue. I'm about to add a cable gland to the middle of the chamber so it can be set up with the suction line directly in the resin pot clamped off. Then it can pull a vac to degas, crack the pot through the ball valve under the vapour filter, and switch the pump across with a single hose to keep the process going without stuffing around too much. I've had all 4 of my infusion attempts fail in the same way, with small incremental changes each time. Its frustrating but am willing to try just about anything to get it right at this point.

In terms of leaks, I'm fairly confident the bag was ok. I do a drop test each time and leave the dry stack on vacuum for about an hour, and already do the press down thing around the tape as the resin flow starts. 

From here I'll add a resin break and include the degas section and see where it ends up. I might also drop the vacuum to see if that makes a difference.




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bszikszai - 6 Years Ago
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