Xencast Flexible Polyurethane Rubber


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TURK
TURK
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Hi all,



Just in case somebody is interested,  with reference the EC Vacuum degassing system .........

I asked the question if it were possible to utilise the vacuum chamber on it's side, horizontal as it were,  on EC's website.



Like this  >>

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/06e18bd1-f874-448d-94b5-fa4f.jpg




Some people may be begging the question why !?   ........  well this is the point I was trying to make.  While reading how to effectively degas silicones and resins,  I read that sometimes for better results,  that a second degas is preferable.  So it means you have to put your entire mould set up box in the vacuum chamber ..........  as I'm making moulds for a headlight assembly,  my moulds are more of a 'shoebox' shape.  This is just a temporary set up just for the picture,  but you get the idea  >>



http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/7bba9d02-8ddb-4b33-aa75-09dd.jpg








Obviously you would have to make an insert and make sure it were level, and you would have to secure the lid.  I was planning on using straps,  like the ones you get for luggage.  Unfortunately,  my mould boxes are 5mm too long !   Satisfied   never mind,  I'll know for next time.  But at least it's good to know.


Just one other thing,  I assume the gauge would still work accurately positioned like that  ?
Rich (Staff)
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there are lots of ways of working out so long as you arrive at the correct amount, that's al lthat counts.

The other way to consider it is that you need 5% of the total quantity of silicone so 5% of 2000g is 100g.
TURK
TURK
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w00t   Crickey,   I got it right !  Laugh



I did go about it in a different way than you,  but hey .......  it's the correct answer we're interested in.


So, thanks for that Richie ......  I would of been up all night trying to confirm that.  I know it may sound stupid or a dim question to some members on here ........  That's probably because I am !   Blush




Trying to learn this business, and loving every minute of it, including going back to school  !   Smile





TURK
Rich (Staff)
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You require 5g of Catalyst for every 100g of silicone, therefore you have 20 x 100g (2,000g) of Silicone and would need 20x5g of catalyst accordingly. 2000g Silicone = 100g Catalyst. 

Your maths is right Smile
TURK
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Thanks for explaining that Richie  Wink  I kind of suspected that,  as the 'LOT' or batch number does have 'CS25' written on it.


While I'm here,  as I'm still doing a little research ........  and in particular ( as I've now moved away from a 1:1 mix ratio )  that even me can work out !  BigGrin  I'm now faced with a 100:5

So just to keep it simple for an idiot like me who actually detests arithmetic as I've never been any good at it,  in layman's terms that translates to a 100 parts of silicone to 5 parts of catalyst, right ?




So how do I work out how much catalyst I need if I know I need 2,000 grams of silicone to fill my mould ?

Is it as simple as dividing the 2,000 grams of silicone by 100 to get 20,  and then multiplying that 20 by 5 to get 100 grams of catalyst  ?

The problem with me being bad at maths,  is I don't actually trust my calculations   Whistling 









TURK
Rich (Staff)
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Hey Pascal, you do have the latest generation of Condensation Cure Silicone 'CS25' - we just haven't updated all of the packaging labels yet. The CS25 comes with a black catalyst which I can see in your photograph. 

Sorry for any confusion.
TURK
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nc42 (12/01/2017)
Unfortunately the road to knowledge in the composites and mold making world is paved with money!

That said don't write off Smooth-on. I've used many of their products in the past and they make quality products and usually have above average customer support. Also in the technical data and the product info page it does say "These products have a limited shelf life and should be used as soon as possible." Might be an expensive lesson but let it be a lesson to read all the available information on what ever product you're looking to use, maybe read it 2 or 3 times!!






Absolutely nc42,  quite agree .........  Read, and re-read the products DataSheet 'before'  you place an order .......  and not after  you've placed your order as I did !  Blush  With the products datasheet set aside for when I would need it,  the day that I would need to work out the mixing ratio's .........  not only is that shear stupidity, but as you say ......  a very expensive lesson learned !  You're absolutely right about not righting off 'Smooth-On,  their technical staff were very helpful and straight onto the problem right away.  As they informed me that they did occasionally have 'bad batches' of the the product,  the batch number or LOT number soon showed mine wasn't,  but still agreed that they were going to give me 10% discount if I should re-order some more.

I was tempted ..........  but I also really needed to know how good the CS25 was from EC,  so I ordered that.  I will still use the OOMOO product in future projects,  but not projects the size of this one.  As OOMOO 30 ( or 25 ) are very expensive.  So as a cost saving exercise I ordered the CS25 from EC.  While I was there,  I ordered myself the full degassing system  BigGrin   This way,  I'm not tied down to using products that are considered 'degassing not necessary',  and I can of course use the system for resins  >>

 




Quick question on the RTV silicone if I may .........  I placed an order for 'CS25',  but it says 'CS2'  on the containers.  I know from reading EC' website that the CS25 is a newer formula .......  so what did I actually get ?
The 'old' stuff ?






TURK
nc42
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Unfortunately the road to knowledge in the composites and mold making world is paved with money!

That said don't write off Smooth-on. I've used many of their products in the past and they make quality products and usually have above average customer support. Also in the technical data and the product info page it does say "These products have a limited shelf life and should be used as soon as possible." Might be an expensive lesson but let it be a lesson to read all the available information on what ever product you're looking to use, maybe read it 2 or 3 times!!
TURK
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Hi Warren,



I'm pretty sure that they'll say what I already suspect .........  I've had that particular 'OOMOO 30' in stock for far too long !  over 6 months I think  Blush

If I'd been made aware that this sort of product 'goes off' even though it's unopened,  I wouldn't of pre-ordered it .......  I would of waited till the last minute to place the order for it.  There's absolutely no information or disclaimer that the product must be used 'fresh'  !   expensive way to find out !  but at least now I know  (  and members on this forum ),  so, guys ........  buy and use right away,  and that goes for any silicone.

As I'm learning about these compounds and materials,  this is beginning to make sense now actually.  Particularly 'Condensation Cure' silicones,  'Condensation' being the operative word here.  Even in it's container,  where there is condensation present,  the silicon will begin to harden !   


While 'Smooth-On' are mulling and Rrrrr' ing over the replacement,  I'm buying a Degassing system from yourselves anyway.  If they choose not to replace it because of my stupidity,  I'll be buying the CS25 from yourselves and trying that.  And I'll also be in the position to degas it as well.  Personally,  I would really like to give that CS25 a trial run .........  it's half the price of the OOMOO 30.

As I have many moulds to make ( various prototypes ),  it would indeed be a more cost effective way of producing vacuum forming moulds.



So,  loads more to follow chaps.



And,  thanks all   Wink







TURK
Warren (Staff)
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Hi Turk,

If they replace it FOC then you might as well try it out. I'd push for a refund too for the hassle - you never know your luck!

The silicone used in the video link is our Addition Cure Silicone Rubber which is a fair bit thicker than the CS25. It is also a bit harder and is translucent. The addition cure realistically needs degassing for best results (as seen in the video).

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
GO

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