heiwaz
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Hello, I saw a video of ifusion method, but with a different variation, that don0t use a tube to introduce resin, only use one tube to extract the air and excess of resin. The resin is putting inside mould before baging. Do you know this method? Is better than normal method?
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fgayford
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heiwaz (08/07/2012)
Hello, I saw a video of ifusion method, but with a different variation, that don0t use a tube to introduce resin, only use one tube to extract the air and excess of resin. The resin is putting inside mould before baging. Do you know this method? Is better than normal method? I think your confusing vacuum bagging with infusion. They are two different things. Wet layup is messy and you have to be time sensitive. Infusion allows you all the time in the world to lay things up dry. You can leave the stack in vacuum for a long time to debulk before you introduce the resin. In my opinion the best is: 1st Prepreg autoclave 2nd Vacuum Infusion 3rd Wet layup vacuum bagged 4th Straight wet layup Best resin: 1st Epoxy Note: in all 3 cases you must use resin designed for infusion. (ask me how I know?) |
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Carbon Tuner
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In my opinion pre preg should be avoided at all costs and looks like poo poo. I'd use it to make large parts, like a plane wing, that's about it. I'm confident enough to mix 500 grams of resin.
If Brute Force Isn''''t working your not using enough...
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pk_090
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^ Unless you have a multi-million pound turnover, and are making complex multi layer, and layering the weave for strength in multiple directions, such as formula one. Just for making shiney lighter parts like for us kind of guys infusion will be alot more cost effective! Alex
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CarbonMike
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Prepreg is BY FAR the best & easiest way to get incredibly high qaulity (visual & strength!) parts. But also dont discount prepreg vac oven cured NOT clave cured. Same principal as a clave but without the £80++p/hour running cost & £100k+ purchase & installation fee of decent usable size clave. (15ft length for example). But, on another note, a lot of this carbon bolt on tat you see on eBay is infusion, and a lot of is actually diolen not carbon, more so the crap from China/Tiawan, hence is stupidly low price (£180 for carbon bonnet for example).
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Kevin-Lee
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^^
Errrrrrr, how is a curing oven running at 80 C with 30psi bag pressure the same as an autoclave running at 150 C and 2000psi vessel pressure?!?!?! Its NOT! And that's the very reason the purchase/running costs of an autoclave are so high and in turn is the very reason that the parts will ALWAYS BE SUPERIOR.
If anything I would say that putting prepreg in a composites oven is a false economy because your simply not getting the full potential of the materials, although I can see it as a very clean and pro way to work and for this reason some people would prefer to use it even without access to a clave...
But if I took a punt I would also say that a bagged prepreg in an oven VS a good infusion in the same oven at the same temp/time would produce a similar result... Its the autoclave conditions that produce a specific end product that YOU CAN NOT FAKE or reproduce any other way...
Kev.
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Warren
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for 99% of diy and small business automotive use, an autoclave versus oven curing with something like easypreg, you will have no practical difference in performance for the kind of parts you are producing.
With small parts, from a business perspective, using pre-pregs is a considerable cost saver in time far more than the extra cost of the pre-preg. Also smaller the part, the harder it is to infuse generally. The time spent getting it perfectly into corners of a small part and bagging it properly are far more costly than the simpler laying of sticky pre-preg.
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Carbon Tuner
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I would Reeeeeeeally like to know just how much stronger... Sure the numbers are there on the pressure in the oven, but HOW MUCH STRONGER EXACTLY is the part?????
When I see things like "ALWAYS BE SUPERIOR" Id like to know your experience in this and the data in your testing?
Or are you just guessing? I'm not doubting it will be stronger but by how much 2 % or like 50%?
If Brute Force Isn''''t working your not using enough...
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CarbonMike
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Kevin-Lee (09/07/2012) ^^
Errrrrrr, how is a curing oven running at 80 C with 30psi bag pressure the same as an autoclave running at 150 C and 2000psi vessel pressure?!?!?!
I dont know where youve guessed these figures from but there completey inacurate? The vacum ovens we have at work run upto 250c and will pull around a steady 250psi of vac. IDEAL for non structural parts (interior trim, small bracketry, robotics cover panels etc). With regards to being faked, correct the overal performance strength wise cant be matched, but the visual effect is easily faked.
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Carbon Tuner
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In a nutshell, these guys tested against autoclave. they say 3% stronger for autoclave but less sheer force. In thier study they explain becasue of the part thickness it was even worse for there boat haul application.
If Brute Force Isn''''t working your not using enough...
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