Carbon kevlar v pure carbon


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PAUL S
PAUL S
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Some amazing weaves and materials they have available. I could not see an exact match for the unusual f40 one but am sure they could soon track it down, thanks for the link.
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There's an Italian company that do some amazing weaves, and this is probably in there catalogue.  The UK distributor is a company called cristex so have a look on there website.
PAUL S
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Attached is a better photo of the unusual weave I mentioned.

Dravis, that is the high tech version of an F40 door! the early models were very basic in their construction, attached a pic of one, and the dubious quality of the finish!

Also a pic of the reason behind my questions Wink
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f4042a.jpg (735 views, 42.00 KB)
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Edited 9 Years Ago by PAUL S
Dravis
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I like the pictures Smile

I do find it a bit funny to look at this "space-age material" combined with a window -wind-up handle that looks like it came from a Metro  -- w00tCool

I have seen Kevlar/carbon mix-weaves like that before, where the fibre ratio is 1:3 rather than 2:2  ..

Interesting point about the hygroscopic properties of Kevlar .. 

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Hanaldo
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Really difficult to tell from those photos. The first one sort of resembles a carbon/Zylon hybrid, but it could easily be something else. 
PAUL S
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All interesting stuff thanks Cool

Can you guys identify this weave used in the F40 intrusion bar and door  covers? its not one I can find for sale, seems to be more carbon than kevlar. They seemed to use the standard hybrid plain weave and twill elsewhere on the car though
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Edited 9 Years Ago by PAUL S
scottracing
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Zylon has to be used on F1 side protection and also is used in the battery boxes too,I know cause I used to make them and it's a pita to work with. I did make a very nice floor for the mclaren f1 from kevlar.
BMW uses mainly carbon ncf fabrics with rtm and wet compression moulding techniques. It's mainly thermoset epoxies used in automotive at the moment, but a lot of thermoplastics are already used on internal items.
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I'm not familiar with the layup schedule of modern day composite cars, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was Kevlar or Zylon or Innegra or one of the other impact absorbing materials included internally, and the carbon is used on the outer layers where it's modulus is most useful. 

To be honest though, I suspect that most modern cars will be using a more advanced system than a simple epoxy matrix like you are thinking. BMW for example, use thermoplastics. Not only does this mean they are able to have 80 second cycles, but thermoplastics can have unique properties of their own, such as the impact absorbing properties of polycarbonate... You can see where I'm going with this. 


I am just speculating though, I've got no first hand knowledge of exactly what materials and processes these companies are using. I suspect that there aren't many who will know specifics... Perhaps some of the other members here will know more about it though.  
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Kevlar  is hygroscopic, which isn't a good thing, hence why it's not used a lot in body panels or in leading edges on aircraft as you will get delamination pretty quickly. 
Another material used commonly for side impact protection is zylon. It's expensive and horrible to cut. 
PAUL S
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Thanks for the quick reply Smile

Ahh, my belief was that kevlar was stronger than carbon fibre, hence why it was used in bulletproof vests etc rather than carbon, and therefore a hybrid cloth using Kevlar and carbon was a better combination than carbon alone for a car panel.

I guess it is the impact resistance/non shattering that makes it suitable for the vests rather than carbon, but in the case of a door skin then surely kevlar is the better solution than carbon, but I have not seen this with modern supercars, they still use carbon which could shatter in a side intrusion impact unlike kevlar?

Only the F40 seemed to use the hybrid cloths and even Ferrari appear to use pure carbon these days, I suppose it was more readily available back in the 80s than carbon alone. 
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