Hi,

Basically im wanting to build a crazy v8 mk2 mr2 with custom body kit, front and rear clam type boot/bonnet, slightly lengthened and a tad wider.. can you advice me on the type of carbon fibre would be best suited for looks and light weight? how much carbon fibre would be needed to do a pretty much an entire outer shell? also wanting to custom engine parts / inlet etc and a carbon dash... i've done alot with fibre glass but i think my project needs to be carbon as im wanting to show it on completion, advice on materials and prices would be great.

Thanks

Gary

Sir-

Thanks for all the time you took to post such a detailed response and provide a bill of materials as well. 

I am considering a similar project.  No doubt this is a significant investment of time and money, but worth it in the end if conditions permit.  I have done a fair amount of research on this forum, other forums, your instructional videos, etc.  I have a masters-level Mechanical Engineering background so understand conceptually what is involved at just about every level (in terms of material properties, chemical interactions, proper mould design, etc.).  Like the original poster, my practical experience is rather limited, and never for a part that needed to be structural... and cosmetic... and large. 

After reviewing all the information at hand, I have a few technical questions about the process that will probably gnaw at me until I've got them sorted in my head (I'm the type to "build" something mentally about a hundred times before I ever buy materials and start construction):

1) For a large and/or complex shape like a one-piece car nose, I would imagine that a multi-part mould may be necessary.  Given that the resin infusion technique provides the best shot for a relative newbie like me to produce a cosmetically-presentable, lightweight, structurally sound part if all instructions are carefully followed, how does one handle the parting lines when doing resin infusion?  Specifically, assuming a multi-part mould with a well-designed and secured parting line:

        a)  How do you make the parting lines vacuum tight?  Sealant tape on the flange?  Mould a channel for sealant tape? 

        b)  How do you maintain the cosmetic integrity of the part?  Fill the parting line gap on the mould side with gelcoat and polish it flawless (a solution for production of only a very few number of parts... i.e. ONE or maybe two, since it would obviously crack away as soon as you separated the mould and would have to be redone every time)?  Fill it with filleting wax or sealant tape or ???? and doing the corrective work on the part itself to sand down the extra resin?

2) For a piece like a one-piece car nose done in exposed (cosmetically visible) CF, it is too complex to be formed from a flat sheet without cutting or some other form of pre-forming, and is also too wide to be covered by a single width.  I'd like to hear your thoughts on the ideas below:

        a)  Can two sheets of CF be joined together with a simple sewing operation in a presentable way without the need for industrial equipment?  For example, laying two 1.5m sheets on top of each other and running the edge through a sewing machine to get an ~3m wide cloth.  How viable is this from a cosmetic perspective?  If making a CF-Soric-CF sandwich, one would obviously want to back any seams with reinforcement or perhaps do a full second layer behind the cosmetically presentable one.

        b)  If sewing CF to meet size requirements is possible, could this concept be extended to sewing a full pre-formed 3D pattern?  I.e., draping paper over the plug, making cut lines and folds in order to then transfer that to a piece of CF fabric to be cut out and pre-sewn into a 3D shape loosely conforming to the mould shape?  What is your experience with the challenges and resulting finished product quality associated with this approach?

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise with me and the rest of the community!

Best wishes,

-Jon

Hi Jon,

It's good to have you on board. Few projects this size get past the planning stage but when they have, like Andy's rear clip for his Noble, they can go really well and be very rewarding projects. Answers to your questions as follows:

a)  How do you make the parting lines vacuum tight?  Sealant tape on the flange?  Mould a channel for sealant tape? 

If you're vacuum bagging against the mould's flange (i.e. not envelope bagging the whole thing) then one technique for sealing the flanges is to use a small bead of silicone sealant near the edge of the flange where the moulds will come together. Silicone sealant will make an airtight seal but won't prevent you from separating the two moulds when it's time to de-mould the part. It will peel off the moulds easily ready to use the next time.

The other alternative is to spray a gelcoat surface onto the inside of your moulds, once they're fixed together. The gelcoat itself will for an airtight seal over the seam. If you do this, use a special gelcoat like our GC50 Epoxy Compatible Polyester Gelcoat. 

b)  How do you maintain the cosmetic integrity of the part?  Fill the parting line gap on the mould side with gelcoat and polish it flawless (a solution for production of only a very few number of parts... i.e. ONE or maybe two, since it would obviously crack away as soon as you separated the mould and would have to be redone every time)?  Fill it with filleting wax or sealant tape or ???? and doing the corrective work on the part itself to sand down the extra resin?

Almost always, if you are making a part as large as a multi-mould car panel then generally you would be painting it afterwards either with coloured paint or with a clear 2k lacquer/clear coat, meaning that the flash lines where the moulds have come together are not a problem. You would flat them before painting and then just paint over them whereby they would disappear. Alternatively, if you've gelcoated your part then you should just be able to flat the flash line away and polish the seam to be left with no visible seam.

a) Can two sheets of CF be joined together with a simple sewing operation in a presentable way without the need for industrial equipment? For example, laying two 1.5m sheets on top of each other and running the edge through a sewing machine to get an ~3m wide cloth. How viable is this from a cosmetic perspective? If making a CF-Soric-CF sandwich, one would obviously want to back any seams with reinforcement or perhaps do a full second layer behind the cosmetically presentable one.

No, you can't stitch carbon fibre together. Where possible you avoid having a join-line. If you need to have a join-line (i.e. widths over 1.5m or when the contours of the mould require relief cuts) then we would suggest using ProFinish Carbon Fibre so that you have have really neat cut-lines. ProFinish carbon fibre has a binder on the back to hold it together well meaning it's much less likely to distort and it won't fray at all on cut lines. Using this material it's possible to arrange a 'V' shape stright down the middle of a panel (like you would see on a Pagani Zonda for example).

b)  If sewing CF to meet size requirements is possible, could this concept be extended to sewing a full pre-formed 3D pattern?  I.e., draping paper over the plug, making cut lines and folds in order to then transfer that to a piece of CF fabric to be cut out and pre-sewn into a 3D shape loosely conforming to the mould shape?  What is your experience with the challenges and resulting finished product quality associated with this approach?

As above; you can't (successfully) stitch carbon fibre together.

I hope this helps and look forward to working with you.

--Matt

Matt Statham
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Sales

Matt-

Thanks so much for your reply and for sharing your expertise. 

This is indeed an ambitious project to say the least, but we'll see if I'm able to put some traction to it once the project gets to that stage (which is probably a couple years away if I'm lucky!). 

Conceptually it seems like I'm trying to "have my cake and eat it too" by trying to mould a large, complex part that has the CF exposed for cosmetic reasons.  Exposed CF plus relatively simple part (car hood, trunk lid, etc) = doable if shape and size/contours permit.  Large, complex, painted part = doable because the underlying fiber structure with all the cosmetically "ugly" relief cuts and join lines would be painted or gelcoated over. 

If I understand you correctly, the multi-part mould is not really a "show stopper" for cosmetically perfect exposed CF parts... the mould parts are sealed as you describe below (the UV-resistant clear gelcoat sounds like a good choice since the tackiness would aid in positioning the first layer of fabric), then after de-moulding the gelcoat flash lines are flatted/polished, then the final part is painted with lacquer / clear-coat.  Voila, no evidence of the parting line.

Sounds like the biggest obstacle to pulling off what I'm envisioning is the complexity of the part.  Even with ProFinish, laying up the outermost layer of CF in a large mould like a single piece nose or rear clip while keeping the relief cuts cosmetically acceptable sounds like it may be a bridge too far.  Also, since it appears only the 2x2 twill is available in ProFinish, that limits my options cosmetically.  I presume that the ProFinish process is proprietary and/or not able to be applied to dry CF by an end-user?  There are some pretty neat "patterned" CF fabrics out there now that would make a great "rally stripe" on an exposed CF panel!

Thanks again for the assistance,

-Jon