carbon and grp hybrid laminate


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benet
benet
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Hi all

In the interest of increased rigidity in a panel........


Ive been producing skateboards using a 10mm wooden core with 600 weight plain weave glass fiber skins top and bottom. They work pretty well.

However i have seen boards using a carbon skin on the underside which is done with the intention of increasing stiffness.

I was wondering about this and thought that, given in my case the core is skinned top and bottom and that grp is generally stronger in elongation than compression i would be better of if i skinned the upper side of the board in 450 carbon and the underside still with 600 grp.

My thinking is that i would have a better balance in the strength of the skins ( the upper being stronger to withstand compression the lower being slightly weaker but effectively strong in elongation) and hence a stiffer board than if i just skinned the bottom in carbon and left the top in grp...?

Im wondering if the use of carbon on the underside of a skateboard is more about aesthetics  (as its on show, the top normally covered in grip tape) and less about engineering.

Any experienced advice much appreciated.

benet
benet
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That might seem a little confusing.

basically 

when standing on a composite board is it  stiffer when its 

1. 450gsm  carbon fibre  top / 10mm wood core / 600gsm glass fibre bottom

or

2. 600gsm glass fibre top / 10mm wood core /  450gsm  carbon fibre bottom

all plain weave

?

Ta
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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It's a matter of compression and elongation tension in your sandwich composite (carbon/FG + wood)
I'll probably be able to give you more information after I had my exam on structural engineering  in 2 weeks :p 

In meanwhile someone els can maybe help this guy? 


Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




brasco
brasco
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if you made ribs underneath it running longitudinally.
hollow CF tubes bonded on would work.
balsa rods covered in CF
birch dowel covered in CF
1/4 in or 6 mm dowels or tubes should provide more than enough.
you also could try a rib on either side along the bottom of the deck.
if you started as a base to explore with, make the ribs the same
thickness as the deck. they could be solid or hollow.
you could also try 4 to 6 ribs fashioned from dowels cut in half lengthwise so
the final look is similar to a cardboard corrugation or sheetmetal  corrugated roofing.
example here is the SR-71 Aircraft has a section like this on the upper rear of the fuselage.
i assume partly for stiffness and partly for increased surface area to radiate heat from the
friction from the air as it flies at high speed.
i am not familiar with the height and width of ribs and which shapes will give the best performance.
that would be lot of complicated math that i am not so good at.

http://www.cstsales.com/carbon_te.html#halfround


CarbonFiberCreations



Edited 11 Years Ago by brasco
benet
benet
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Thanks Brasco.

I quite like the idea of ribs on the bottom they could also provide a nice bit of extra grip when gabbing the board.

However really im just wondering if i would be clever or stupid to put the cf layer on the top as opposed to the more usual method of skinning the bottom with cf.

Id like to avoid the extra cost of skinning top and bottom in cf.

my understanding is that in a well balanced sandwich the top (ie the side in compression ) should be stronger  than the bottom as gf and cf are both stronger in tension. but i was just thinking i could make the top stronger by using cf.  i guess a well balanced sandwich is one that stresses around the center of its core hence being less likely to fail than one that is biased closer to one side or the other.

I guess i could just knock up a small panel and stress test it one way up and then the other.
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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have you thought about using FG or Carbon fiber inbetween the layers of wood? before pressing the board together?

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




benet
benet
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Matthieu 
yes, i do that on some boards mostly for aesthetics and flex ( the boards look nice with a wood outer ) . But i tend to think when rigidity is paramount not flex, which it is in some types of board, the further apart the fg or cf the stiffer the result.

Id be happy to hear any evidence against that. Of course a stiffer core will always help to some degree but weight comes into play and generally the wood is lighter. some boards are made with cores of foam or balsa wood that have no real strength at all other than the ability to keep the laminates apart. however thicker and hence heavier laminates are required to make up the strength.

Also as a bonus, another thing i think is going on when you skin the outer of a composite board is that the skin actually holds the wood core together stopping it from being able to split so readily and hence extends the point of failure.



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