Making a carbon fiber roof..


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Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
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yes.. I am looking at sikaflex 265..   30min  before it sets and doesn´t shrink etc..     I cant find any data on the plastic paddings pp-flex so I don´t have the guts to use it.. I looked at EC:s site and is a 20min 2komp glue but it needs a special gun and gets a bit expensive over £100 plus shipping. I was hoping to get something fast here more local though..
Hanaldo
Hanaldo
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Keep in mind that this is the stuff that is going to stop your extremely lightweight roof from coming off for the next 10-15 years... It isn't somewhere to cut corners. If it was worth all the expense and the trouble you've been through to get to this point, then it's surely worth another £100 to make sure you're using the right stuff? 

For what it's worth, I would be looking at an epoxy adhesive rather than a polyurethane for this application because you are bonding plastic to metal. Polyurethane is ok for metal, but epoxy is better. If you're looking at EC's range of adhesives, the ET515 would be my pick. Otherwise, see if you can find a Huntsman distributor near you, and whether they can get Araldite 2014-1 or Araldite 2015, both of which would be excellent adhesives for this application. Both would still require the dual cartridge gun though - the best structural adhesives do.

Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
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I agree better safe than sorry..   ET 515 is too fast.. I am not sure I will be able to even apply all the adhesive needed in 15 min.. Araldit is a pretty common brand here.. I will look in to those..  Maybe thickening out the infusion resin slow isn´t such a bad idé.. My initial thought was that it will be too brittle..

Edit: .. Araldit is crazy expensive.. They come in 200ml packs and I would need 2 or three and that means over £300 here in sweden.. Maybe a bit sheaper from uk.. but still..  I dont think polyurethane is such a bad choise.. I meen all windscreens are attached with polyurethane adhessives..

Edited 6 Years Ago by Fredrik Welen
Hanaldo
Hanaldo
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How are you calculating your adhesive requirements? 600ml of adhesive is a lot, I'd be very surprised if you needed that much. I am a bit surprised at the costs as well though, I pay AU$99 (about £50-£60) per cartridge locally, and Australia is typically pretty expensive for this sort of thing. Are you certain it is the same adhesive, Araldite is a common brand name but the genuine Huntsman Araldite is what I'm talking about.

In any case, I know polyurethanes are extremely good adhesives, I love them - when they are being used for their intended application. In general, I find the peel strength of Sikaflex products to carbon fibre or other composites to be quite poor, even on very well prepped surfaces. I've used it numerous times in situations where I might need to remove it later, and in all cases it is quite an easy task to just scrape the adhesive off. A 2 component polyurethane adhesive is different, they have exceptional peel strength on composites - but a bit lower on metal. 

All of that said, you would probably get away with it. Your application isn't super critical, so even an ok bond will probably be enough. In my opinion though, it's just asking for trouble. Use the stuff that's made for the job and rest easy.
Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
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I agree pay ones and do it ones..   300.. I don´t know how i got to that..

I have looked at:

SikaPower-1554 2k epoxy 200ml pack 40 min opening time before it sets. 

Adekit A140  2k epoxy 50ml and 400ml pack 40 min opening time before it sets.

Araldit 2015  2k epoxy 200ml pack 30min opening time before it sets.  around £45 per pack


I cant seem to find any of those in the big tubes.. the small 50ml tubes just gets to expensive.. So far I have to order from outside the country and that ads to it with fees and shipping.


I need to apply the adhesive all around and to the supports.. a 400ml pack should be enough I am guessing.



Edited 6 Years Ago by Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
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I have serched ALOT and had real hard time finding a way to get any of the epoxys mensioned above.. When i called the national distributors the only sell cases of 12 pcs or so.. The stores I found only had the small packs and that will be crazy expensive..
I finaly stumbled over Araldite 2015 at a very good deal on ebay uk.. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ARALDITE-2015-200ML-Two-component-epoxy-paste-adhesive-EXP-DATE-2020/142651614094?epid=1423182454&hash=item2136b2e38e:g:ZA4AAOSwAU5aVhLe

I ordered 800ml for around £55 shipped.. I was very pleased with that.. Can´t wait to get it..
Fredrik Welen
Fredrik Welen
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Got the adhesive.. I taped the edges of the roof and the nearest surface of the car with release tape in case the adhesive swells out of the joints. It will be easier to get rid of the excess adhesive I hope.  I also added some blue protective tape so I wont scratch anything hopefully.  Then I sanded all the mating suffices with 120 grit and cleaned with acetone.  The glue gun for these 200ml "tubes" where kind of expensive but I had some luck and a friend of mine had one at his work he could borrow me..  I could not find them very cheap ether.. about  £80 and I don´t think I will use one anytime soon ether. 

I also had to make some fab work to get the clamps to work for my rear edge of the roof..   I cut some plywood pieces and placed them along the long sides so I could clamp the roof down.

2 pcs of 200ml packs of the araldite adhesive was enough and I got two extra packs left over to use for something else..  It took me about 20-25 min to get the adhesive on the roof structure and placeing the roof over it and clamp it down..  The adhesive had a pot life of 30 min so I had no time for mistakes. It all went well and now it is just to wait for it to cure..The only thing that could have happened is if I used to little of the adhesive fearing that it would bulge out. I doubt it though. The adhesive worked great but I wish it would have been black instead of the beige color.
I am not sure if I will use new  roof seals along the long sides or if I will seal with some black polyurethan sealant just to make sure it is water seald.. Maybe both.. Water has a terrible way of penetrating joints. I just hate to handle that black polyurethane stuff and it has a way of end up everywhere.. I need to figure out how to get nice looking small and even seal..






Edited 6 Years Ago by Fredrik Welen
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