Honeycomb Cell Geometry


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jt393
jt393
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Good morning,

I'm wondering whether you have any information or data regarding the cell geometry of your honeycomb cores, both Nomex and Aluminium?

In particular, are they regular hexagons in shape (all sides the same length) and is the cell size measured from one flat side to the opposing flat side, rather than corder to corner or some other measurement?

Are there any variations in this in the Nomex and Aluminium you stock, or are they all the same?

Thanks for your help.
Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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Both nomex and aluminium honeycomb have similar cell shapes.  The nomex uses bonded nomex paper, and the aluminium uses bonded foils. They are bonded along the two opposing flats, which means those flats are 2 skins compared to the other sides of the cell.

The hexagons are designed to be as close to regular as production tolerances allow.  Especially with the aluminium honeycomb, how regular they are entirely depends on the user expanding the honeycomb.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
jt393
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Thanks Warren, that is a really helpful response - the extra information especially.

I am interested in the designed geometry for modelling purposes, so completely understand about the tolerances and that it's never going to be absolutely precise.

And the cell size is measured across the cell, as in the dc in the diagram below?
http://www.sensorprod.com/news/white-papers/2003_etfs/image02.jpg
Warren (Staff)
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Yes that is correct, the cell size is dc in the picture.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
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I can add that expanding the Alu honeycomb, and maintaining a regular hexagonal structure to the cells is not possible in the real world (at least no for me Blush)

I have been using the EC honeycomb in the smallest cell size, and machining it down to 3 and 5 mm in compressed form, then expanding it.

Even expanding the full 10 mm thickness Honeycomb, leaves the cells quite irregular i shape.  I do not think it has any important influence in the strength of the resulting sandwich structure.

Looking at how the forces act on the Aluminium Honeycomb cells, it seems to me that a very large proportion of the forces will be compressive, acting on the "thickness axis" of the honeycomb.

Taking that into account the actual precise geometric distribution of these very straight upright "walls" of thin Aluminium alloy does not seem that important, it will average out over an area.

So the number of "walls" (density pr area) and the wall thickness is the important bit. (along with the strength of the particular alloy)

From my own "empiric" research I can tell you that a sample sandwich composite, consisting of 5 mm thick EC smallest cell Alu honeycomb, between to layers of Infused CF, (each made with 2 x 200 twill + 1 300gsm Satin) will handle a load of more than 50 kg's force on a 1 sq. cm area, without visible distortion, when the force was raised to 80 kg. on the same surface area, there was a less then 1 mm deep permanent indentation, that did not affect the stiffness of the panel- .. 
In this sample, the Alu honeycomb was "glued" on to the CF sheets with a thin layer of  laminating epoxy, directly on a "peel-ply" surface. I did not use the specialized Permabond honeycomb glue.

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103% of all people do not understand statistics...

Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
jt393
jt393
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That's really helpful to know in addition, thank you.

And I have found exactly the same with the Aluminium honeycomb, in terms of the expansion not creating the regular structure, though as you say it likely averages out over an area.  I wonder whether we can find a way to expand the structure more repeatably than the DIY approaches using nails in wood and so on for simplicity.  I'll let you know if I do.

I am especially interested in the machining side of things though, so it's great you've mentioned that.  I too will be looking to machine down to 3mm and 5mm - could be a useful comparison with the Nomex.  Do you have any tips or guidance as to how you found the machining to work best?

Thanks again, this is a great forum and though contacting EC directly was what I initially wanted to do, this is proving far more helpful and hopefully for future readers too.
Warren (Staff)
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The expanding machines are a little bit more precise than the DIY method as the "fingers" on the machine are able to change the spacing as the sheet is expanded.  However a certain level of distortion is likely to be inevitable due to the method of manufacture.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
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I've machined the alu honeycomb in unexpanded form.  I made a "jig" to set up in my milling machine, and clamp it down, and keep it compressed. Then simply make multiple slow milling cuts across.

"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW!

The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind...

103% of all people do not understand statistics...

Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
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Several formulas about to machine crushed core to a profile then expand again

have done repairs to Dornier wing flaps where the core has to be square to the centre axis not follow the wing surface so the core is crushed till its almost solid,a profile is machined on it using the correct formula then its pulled back into shape and has the perfect profile of the flap

Also done a satellite where when the core is cooked we had perfect honeycomb hex,s machined from stainless that we had to check and re size every single hole-And there were a lot of holes !!!
Dravis
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As for the "satellite"  Aerospace jobs ... some of that is just mindblowing Tech....  :-O  

I've seen a microwave dish for one project ... built from composites and exotic metal foils...

This thing does not distort its surface more than 1/1000 of a mm, over a temperature range of -180 C to + 180 C.      w00t

It's close to one square metre in size, and weighs less than 2000 grams....  Alien

"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW!

The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind...

103% of all people do not understand statistics...

Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
GO

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