Use different gelcoat for other half of mould?


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Timellis
Timellis
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I am having finish issues on my pattern and mould when using Unimold gelcoat. The first time the part was finished in clear lacquer form Halfords. The part was easy leased and then waxed 8 times. When de-moulded the finish on the part had alligatored leaving a poor quality mould. The second time had 2k lacquer finish, again easy lease and wax with the same result.

My question is can I use your epoxy tooling gelcoat for this half of my mould? (the first half has been repaired extensively from alligatoring) - I am looking at the "green stuff" you have. Also, what finish do you suggest for my part?

Thanks in advance.
Edited 10 Years Ago by Timellis
Hanaldo
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*edit* sorry, misread your post. 

I would recommend using PVA instead of the semi-perms. 
Edited 10 Years Ago by Hanaldo
wozza
wozza
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The problems sound to be in the preparation of the plug rather than the release agent or the Uni Mould.
The styrene in the Halfords rattle can clear will have caused the problems on the first mould. My guess is you tried to correct that on the second attempt by using 2k clear. 2k can take weeks to fully cure at low/ambient temperatures. If you try to pull the mould too soon the heat generated during the exotherm will soften the 2k which can cause surface finish and release problems

Using an Epoxy gelcoat is an expensive way of trying to fix the problem. You will have to use epoxy resin and either powder pound CSM or E glass for the backing layers. Even then the heat during curing will soften the 2k if its not fully cured.

How you apply the gelcoat also matters. Apply it too thick or add a second coat too soon and it will contract during curing, again causing problems.
If you get the plug prep right a semi perm release agent and correctly applied Uni Mould works fine, I use it all the time.

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
Timellis
Timellis
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So what finish do you suggest? I now have to sand and prep my plug again and need to apply a finish.

Thanks for your help with this - it's getting a bit frustrating.
wozza
wozza
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Timellis (03/11/2014)
So what finish do you suggest? I now have to sand and prep my plug again and need to apply a finish.

Thanks for your help with this - it's getting a bit frustrating.


I know how frustrating and costly it can becomeCrazy

You have a few options. More info would be helpful before making suggestions.
What is the plug made from
How big and complex is it (pictures may help)
What is the mould for, infusion,wet lay, pre- preg, poly or epoxy resin.

Carbon Copies Ltd
Timellis
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its a guitar body - or rather the top of the body (the lower part is the other half of the mould) I intend to lay carbon fibre, reinforcement and vacuum using epoxy resin - no pre-preg or ovens will be used.
Hanaldo
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So infusion or wet-lay? 

Is using PVA out of the question? 
Timellis
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I am going to wet lay initially and try infusion at a later date. If I don't have the time to wait for 2k to fully cure what finish for the plug would you suggest. PVA is ok as the final product will be lacquered, blocked and polished.

I believe I have followed all the Unimold instructions correctly - I have made a mould with the green gelcoat and epoxy clay kit in the past with no issues.
wozza
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If time is the issue and surface finish isn't critical then PVA as Hanaldo suggests. It will need to be spray applied. That way you can apply several coats creating a decent barrier layer between the plug and gelcoat. 
Epoxy Mould kits can be useful especially if working in a home environment as they dont give off any nasty fumes. The epoxy won't attack the plug like polyesters can but still generate heat during curing. Depending on what the plug is made from this heat can be sufficiently high to deform the plug. The same goes for polyester. Plastic trim parts for example or thin wood like some guitars. It's an expensive way to create larger moulds though compared to polyesters.

In my opinion the less finishing work you have to do on the part the better. When sanding/flatting CF you  always run the risk of sanding through the thin layer of resin into the cloth. Once that happens cosmetically the part is ruined.
I prefer to spend the time on the plug/mould. There is something very satisfying about pulling a part from a mould that requires no more than a quick buff. It is also much more cost effective on multiple runs.

Good luck with the project guitars are not easy things to make from composites especially acoustics.

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 10 Years Ago by wozza
Warren (Staff)
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I have to agree with Warren here.  PVA seems the best way to go as time is critical in your case.  In an ideal world, aim for a perfect plug leaving minimal work to achieve a perfect mould.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
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