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Westfield parts from a newbie
Westfield parts from a newbie
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Brian2fast
Brian2fast
posted 11 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 79,
Visits: 1.3K
Hi All
This is my first post. I've visited many times and gained lots of very helpful information over the last year so I wanted to post up some of my pics to helpfully help some other newbie. A photograph tells a thousand words so I'll try and keep the words to a minimum. I remember searching for pics of anything carbon when I was starting out. I'm sure there must be lots of people on this forum that could post more pics!
My story started when I bought a set of carbon seats and then I need support brackets, I decided to take the plunge and have a go with carbon.
This is my first attempt. Wet lay in a mould made from putty.
Made 2 of them. I remember being amazed when the first one cracked out the mould. I had a few pin holes on the surface so I clear coated them, about 8 coats! No pics of the pattern I made I'm afraid. I made it from 2mm steel plate welded into shape. Then I made the classic mistake and used rattle can paint. Then I read on this forum about the problems of doing that and before I used it to make the mould I stripped the paint off and used polyester resin (another mistake!! haha). I was very lucky and got away with it tho.
The pin holes annoyed me so I decided to try a vacuum infusion. After reading and reading I took the plunge and ordered the starter kit.
The next part was a pedal box cover for my Westfield. Again I made the pattern from steel and (yet again) covered it with polyester resin. Then wet sanded till the cows came home.....
Used this to make a GRP mould with the green tooling gel.
Pattern covered with tooling gel.
Few layers of fiberglass over the gel. I remember having trouble doing the gel coat on my first mould. Matt (Easycomposites) suggested doing 2 layers instead of one. Now I always do 2 thinner layers, sometimes 3 if I'm worried about a thin edge.
My first infusion. This was nerve racking! haha. I took a long time making sure I didn't have bridging in the center area. I think for me the 2 most important things for doing infusions is take your time with the position of the bag and second is don't rush to put the resin in, always do a vacuum leak test. Always.
This was the result of my first infusion. I was pleased with it and could see the potential. Making lightweight, strong, cool looking parts in my garage without relying on outside help, sounds good to me.
I had a few marks but these polished out. I had a few pin holes. It took me quite a while to figure out why I was getting these and how to stop. Now I'm quite certain that these were caused by me not degassing the resin correctly. I was always worried the resin was going to set in the pot so I looking back I didn't degas for long enough. Now I degas for about 5 minutes for about 100g of resin. Is this correct? does anybody else have comments or tips about this?
My next parts I wanted to make were a full set of pedals, clutch, throttle and brake. I work in an engineering design office so there was plenty of people drawing air thru their teeth when I mentioned I was going to make a carbon brake pedal
I knew I need a nice thick lump of carbon for the pedals and I didn't know if I could do an infusion for that. I still don't know. If anybody has any pointers about doing an infusion with parts that are 18mm thick please let me know.
I decided to have a go at squashing the carbon between 2 steel moulds. I drew the clutch pedal up first on the CAD at my work, then designed the moulds around that.
The 2 sides of the steel mould with the faces skinned with a layer of 1.6mm aluminium.
Alloy surface polished to death.
Fabric cut out. I had designed the pivot point of the pedal to be a lot thicker than the rest of the pedal but I wanted a smooth curve transition from one thickness to the other, no stress raiser. I did this by cutting out varying sizes of rectangles of fabric (seen to the left in the pic). I wasn't sure this would work but I decided to try.
Then I squashed the mould in a vice (nearly broke the vice) and left it for a few days.
It took a bit of work splitting open the mould because the resin goes everywhere and locks them together. You can see how the alloy has deformed around the steel plates below when it was squashed.
After a lot of cutting and shaping I ended up with these shapes. I had to make another mould for the foot plate. I cut the steel boss out of my old pedal and reused it (no going back after that, lol). I was amazed how stiff and strong the carbon was at this point.
I needed a mould for each pedal. Permagrit hole saws and files were used, really good tools. One tip for holesawing thick carbon is try not to cut right through in one. Drill a pilot then cut half way through from both sides. You get a better finish, less filing required.
I pressed in little DU glacier bearings for the pivot points. All glued together with Easycomposite structural glue, great stuff. No pics of it but I welded up a little jig to hold the brake pedal and tested it to 100kg, also jumped up and down on it from various weird angles just to convince myself it wouldn't snap. The brake pedal is 6mm thick by 50mm wide and 24mm thick at the pivot end. Does anybody think this is dodgy in anyway? Brake pedal saved 260g. The three pedals and pedalbox panel saved nearly 1kg
The new seats (which I bought not made), seat brackets and harnesses saved around 12kg.
Well I'm getting bored typing now. I'll post up pics of my other parts from last year and a few of what I'm making just now.
Headlights with titanium nut, bolt and stud (always wanted a bit of titanium...)
These are the coolest looking bolts I'v seen! lol. I had to cut the head of one bolt and turn it into a stud. If I was doing it again I would make the attaching tabs a little thicker, they are a bit flexy. (Pasted an MOT tho).
Split moulds for headlights. Theres never enough pictures of split moulds, haha. It took me ages to get my head around split moulds. Hopefully more experienced people will post pics of multi part moulds.
Pattern made from 2mm steel and 2 steel tubes for the seat bracket mounting I needed. Newbie mistake again by painting it with rattle can primer. I got it painted with proper 2 pack by a paintshop but it still stuck in the mould and took hours to recover by carefully scrapping the paint off the mould surface.
Made 4 of these, 1 per seat side.
Exhaust can made with high temp resin and gold heat reflective tape on the inside. Exhaust can and bracket saved 1.6kg over the old stainless steel one.
Bracket for exhaust made by squashing steel moulds together. It was a bit dogdy getting it out of the moulds because the surfaces were pretty much parallel.
My first carbon parts from last winter. I only had to scrap one part and one mould.
Sorry for the massive first post. I meant to post pics last year but never got round to it. I'd love to hear any advice or comments from the experienced guys on this forum.
Craig
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11 Years Ago by
Brian2fast
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Brian2fast
Brian2fast
posted 11 Years Ago
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 79,
Visits: 1.3K
Hi Fred
Thanks for the compliment. Oh I really do know how better off I am with the advantage of this forum. I hated the thought of wasting carbon and resin. I read and read before I did anything. At one point it felt like I had looked at every single photograph of carbon on the internet! Haha. That's why I wanted to post my pics and hopefully help some other newbie.
I remember seeing a photograph of you're trike, that looked amazing! My long term plan is get more experience and make all the body work carbon.
Hi Stuart
Ah, I'll come clean with the exhaust, you found me out! Haha. I bought the carbon tube. I only made the bracket's to attach it by. I bought the tube from PJ Engineering.
http://www.pjengineering.co.uk/products.php?cat=5
The tube was too short for what I needed, so I bought 2 lengths, butted them together and overlapped another bit of the tube, glued it all together with high temp resin (Easycomposites). My bracket was slotted into/thu the can so it was supported from the inside. I can't measure the thickness of the tube now but I remember it was really thin, must have been less then 1mm thick. Before it was all bolted up I was skeptical that it would be strong enough but it was.
The gold tape was from Demon Tweeks. Think I searched about and they ended up being the cheapest which was unusual. (Still 80 quid tho.....)
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/heat-shielding-protection/design-engineering-reflect-a-gold
Also used this Accusta fill stuffing. It worked really well. Can't remember where I bought that from I'm afraid.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/exhaust-accessories/acousta-fil-exhaust-silencer-packing
Craig
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Westfield parts from a newbie
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That e-brake is unreal!!
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stuart321
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Toffee
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[quote][b]Brian2fast (18/02/2014)[/b][hr]Cheers Wildcard! I'v been thinking about whats caused...
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wildcard
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combustioncraig
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Brian2fast
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11 Years Ago
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matthieutje65
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11 Years Ago
Hi Matthieu Yes my description was a bit vague! Haha Unfortunately I didn't take a photograph...
Brian2fast
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looks gorgeous!
wildcard
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wozza
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fantastic job!!
kekko81
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Brian2fast
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wozza
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Shell should be going to the paint shop this week for top coat. Then we can start working out...
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Hanaldo
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My opinion also ^
Hanaldo
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Let me quote this again: > > When I have a line clamp not full open it seems to create...
brainfart
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11 Years Ago
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wozza
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> Unfortunately many forums have "armchair experts" who read a question, go off and google it...
brainfart
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11 Years Ago
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This thread is truly inspirational
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Brian2fast
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This is the stuff I use:...
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Is that company Italian by any chance Warren?
Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
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Elitec
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11 Years Ago
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11 Years Ago
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11 Years Ago
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11 Years Ago
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Brian2fast
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11 Years Ago
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Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
ANY IMAGE PLEASE WHERE YOU INSERT NEW PIECE OF CARBON WHERE ANGLE TO DIFFICULT? how you do that so...
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11 Years Ago
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Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
any luck with images how to do that? so that would help me a lot
TomDesign
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11 Years Ago
I didn't take any photographs when I was laying the first layer of fabric I'm afraid. I'll try and...
Brian2fast
-
11 Years Ago
so you say first piece to cut straight then next piece from other side if goes to do longer and...
TomDesign
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11 Years Ago
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Hanaldo
-
11 Years Ago
Thank you a lot im going to try to do this. any advise if i want to do like this sheet- 1 layer...
TomDesign
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11 Years Ago
Same result as in surface finish or thickness or what?
Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
no im simply asking you think these cards he used what im thinking to lay or you think to thin? also...
TomDesign
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11 Years Ago
A quick update. Today was the first time I have seen the new scuttle panel outside in sunlight and I...
Brian2fast
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11 Years Ago
Well that's interesting. Have you got any photos?
Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
I tried taking a couple of pics. In the photographs it doesn't really look like what it is in real...
Brian2fast
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11 Years Ago
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Hanaldo
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11 Years Ago
As I said before, make your own spray adhesive by mixing resin and hardener non-stoichometrically...
brainfart
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11 Years Ago
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Brian2fast
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11 Years Ago
MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, it's a type of solvent. Not as aggressive as acetone so better for...
Hanaldo
-
11 Years Ago
Hi All Looking for opinions and advice. My latest part is the nosecone. Before I took a mould off...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
I can't help you with your current issue but I must say this is extremly inspireing (just read the...
Bean Bandit
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10 Years Ago
The only thing I can think of is that you need to add a bit of bracing to the original nose cone...
scottracing
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10 Years Ago
Hi All I thought I was up a certain creak without a paddle last Sunday. I struggled for 10 hours...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
looking good, well worth all the effort!
scottracing
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10 Years Ago
Looking good ! Feeling your pain over the demoulding issues, lol @ garden hose...
davro
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10 Years Ago
Hi Thanks for the encouraging comments (and videos, lol). I meant to say in my last post. I had...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
Carbon build off! Brain2Fast V davro round 1, who's bling will be the lightest lol. I am...
davro
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10 Years Ago
Perhaps it is the size of the part, but your flanges look quite small on that bonnet? You'd be...
Hanaldo
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10 Years Ago
I follow hanaldo on this one! about the bag...never had problems with the green bag and think its...
matthieutje65
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10 Years Ago
Good point Hanaldo about the flanges. I have a standard 4" flange on all my moulds now after having...
davro
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10 Years Ago
A quick tip with vac bags is to wet the bag. Get a garden plant spray gun. The finer the mist the...
scottracing
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10 Years Ago
Davro, knew you'd be up for a laugh! The British carbon bake off! Haha Do you have a one piece...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
[quote][b]Brian2fast (03/04/2015)[/b][hr] Davro, knew you'd be up for a laugh! The British carbon...
davro
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10 Years Ago
no worries,all tips I learnt from my time in motorsports plus im also a scotsman and no that money...
scottracing
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10 Years Ago
Hi Dave Blat technology sounds very appropriate! You'll be fitting a big fan at the rear for more...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
wauu, great work. definitively, i still most like the pedalls :) how much weight saving you managed...
tomzi1234
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10 Years Ago
Yup I saw Matthieu's multiple part vertical infusion, interesting ... Your bonnet mould is...
davro
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10 Years Ago
Looks like a nice mould ;) Glad you liked my video Brian2Fast ;)
matthieutje65
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10 Years Ago
Quick update and excuses...... The bonnet mould turned out not bad but similar to the nose cone...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
The surface reflections will probably be caused by uneven shrinkage. Happens when the exotherm gets...
Hanaldo
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10 Years Ago
It could be the gel although the Unimould is very low shrinkage. It could also be over application...
Warren (Staff)
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10 Years Ago
Thanks for both your replies, much appreciated. Hanaldo. Yeah, I was thinking the problem was heat...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
Nice video, hope you and the bike are ok after the ending ;) Youtube embed does seem to be broken...
davro
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10 Years Ago
Ah! Thanks Davro, your not only a carbon baker but an IT guru as well! Yeah both the bike and me...
Brian2fast
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10 Years Ago
Well this was a long time in the making...... Haha Eventually sprayed this with 2k clear coat and...
Brian2fast
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9 Years Ago
Looking good Craig ! Sounds like you have the right spraying mask ... Never used a 2K spray rattle...
davro
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9 Years Ago
Hi Dave So you've done a fair bit of 2k clear spraying now then? Never had any problems with...
Brian2fast
-
9 Years Ago
How's your ventilation in the area you are spraying? I find ventilation is far more important than...
Hanaldo
-
9 Years Ago
Hi Brian, I run everything off the same compressor and the compressor is getting it's fresh air...
davro
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9 Years Ago
Hi All Just finished spraying 2k clear over the first bodywork part. I used Quartz Liquid...
Brian2fast
-
9 Years Ago
Sounds like a thin coating. Looks outstanding, but if you want to find a coating that you don't have...
Hanaldo
-
9 Years Ago
Hi All Thought I would update this and put some pics up of the finished parts after many hours...
Brian2fast
-
9 Years Ago
Looking very nice a whole lot of sanding and polishing :) How are you going to fix the rear and...
davro
-
9 Years Ago
Hi Dave Sorry for the late reply! I don't have a middle rear view mirror and my side mirrors...
Brian2fast
-
9 Years Ago
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