Westfield parts from a newbie


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Brian2fast
Brian2fast
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Hi All

This is my first post. I've visited many times and gained lots of very helpful information over the last year so I wanted to post up some of my pics to helpfully help some other newbie. A photograph tells a thousand words so I'll try and keep the words to a minimum. I remember searching for pics of anything carbon when I was starting out. I'm sure there must be lots of people on this forum that could post more pics!  Smile  

My story started when I bought a set of carbon seats and then I need support brackets, I decided to take the plunge and have a go with carbon.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/f71b5089-7f16-4d5b-9b2a-3020.JPG
This is my first attempt. Wet lay in a mould made from putty.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/ba9dc0b5-e469-4d2d-ac8f-873d.JPG


Made 2 of them. I remember being amazed when the first one cracked out the mould. I had a few pin holes on the surface so I clear coated them, about 8 coats! No pics of the pattern I made I'm afraid. I made it from 2mm steel plate welded into shape. Then I made the classic mistake and used rattle can paint. Then I read on this forum about the problems of doing that and before I used it to make the mould I stripped the paint off and used polyester resin (another mistake!!  haha). I was very lucky and got away with it tho.


The pin holes annoyed me so I decided to try a vacuum infusion. After reading and reading I took the plunge and ordered the starter kit.
The next part was a pedal box cover for my Westfield. Again I made the pattern from steel and (yet again) covered it with polyester resin. Then wet sanded till the cows came home.....

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/6ec202fc-375c-4e3c-95b2-31c8.JPG
Used this to make a GRP mould with the green tooling gel.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/e9484db4-dfcf-4b28-b8a5-bcd9.JPG
Pattern covered with tooling gel.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/1a4ad404-2cbe-4068-ba4e-e208.JPG
Few layers of fiberglass over the gel. I remember having trouble doing the gel coat on my first mould. Matt (Easycomposites) suggested doing 2 layers instead of one. Now I always do 2 thinner layers, sometimes 3 if I'm worried about a thin edge.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/a3624f7c-b3f7-4540-857a-6d79.JPG
My first infusion. This was nerve racking! haha. I took a long time making sure I didn't have bridging in the center area. I think for me the 2 most important things for doing infusions is take your time with the position of the bag and second is don't rush to put the resin in, always do a vacuum leak test. Always.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/f450aecc-3522-4b96-919d-c9ae.JPG
This was the result of my first infusion. I was pleased with it and could see the potential. Making lightweight, strong, cool looking parts in my garage without relying on outside help, sounds good to me.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/542ae837-5471-4be9-8495-73ca.JPG
I had a few marks but these polished out. I had a few pin holes. It took me quite a while to figure out why I was getting these and how to stop. Now I'm quite certain that these were caused by me not degassing the resin correctly. I was always worried the resin was going to set in the pot so I looking back I didn't degas for long enough. Now I degas for about 5 minutes for about 100g of resin. Is this correct? does anybody else have comments or tips about this?

My next parts I wanted to make were a full set of pedals, clutch, throttle and brake. I work in an engineering design office so there was plenty of people drawing air thru their teeth when I mentioned I was going to make a carbon brake pedal  Smile     

I knew I need a nice thick lump of carbon for the pedals and I didn't know if I could do an infusion for that. I still don't know. If anybody has any pointers about doing an infusion with parts that are 18mm thick please let me know.

I decided to have a go at squashing the carbon between 2 steel moulds. I drew the clutch pedal up first on the CAD at my work, then designed the moulds around that.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/7bb957a2-255e-4a1d-be51-1d99.JPG
The 2 sides of the steel mould with the faces skinned with a layer of 1.6mm aluminium.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/9b2e2500-ff45-4360-bbdd-831f.JPG
Alloy surface polished to death.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/b4e33a01-9457-45f0-a911-4ee1.JPG
Fabric cut out. I had designed the pivot point of the pedal to be a lot thicker than the rest of the pedal but I wanted a smooth curve transition from one thickness to the other, no stress raiser. I did this by cutting out varying sizes of rectangles of fabric (seen to the left in the pic). I wasn't sure this would work but I decided to try.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/69d22670-c32e-47e2-84e0-9ade.JPG
Then I squashed the mould in a vice (nearly broke the vice) and left it for a few days.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/4dcaaf2d-8a9a-43cd-a314-8b22.JPG
It took a bit of work splitting open the mould because the resin goes everywhere and locks them together. You can see how the alloy has deformed around the steel plates below when it was squashed. 

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/04b30dbb-1ba0-4d2a-8dc8-3f62.JPG


After a lot of cutting and shaping I ended up with these shapes. I had to make another mould for the foot plate. I cut the steel boss out of my old pedal and reused it (no going back after that,  lol). I was amazed how stiff and strong the carbon was at this point. 

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/70541039-71df-42bf-b667-bce7.JPG
I needed a mould for each pedal. Permagrit hole saws and files were used, really good tools. One tip for holesawing thick carbon is try not to cut right through in one. Drill a pilot then cut half way through from both sides. You get a better finish, less filing required.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/8a5dbd85-c24e-45b1-8705-21e7.JPG
I pressed in little DU  glacier bearings for the pivot points. All glued together with Easycomposite structural glue, great stuff. No pics of it but I welded up a little jig to hold the brake pedal and tested it to 100kg, also jumped up and down on it from various weird angles just to convince myself it wouldn't snap. The brake pedal is 6mm thick by 50mm wide and 24mm thick at the pivot end. Does anybody think this is dodgy in anyway? Brake pedal saved 260g. The three pedals and pedalbox panel saved nearly 1kg
The new seats (which I bought not made), seat brackets and harnesses saved around 12kg.



Well I'm getting bored typing now. I'll post up pics of my other parts from last year and a few of what I'm making just now.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/bdf66c97-f2e2-4863-b67e-3130.JPG
Headlights with titanium nut, bolt and stud (always wanted a bit of titanium...)

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/1c78d760-8d4f-492e-ac02-ca5b.JPG
These are the coolest looking bolts I'v seen! lol. I had to cut the head of one bolt and turn it into a stud. If I was doing it again I would make the attaching tabs a little thicker, they are a bit flexy. (Pasted an MOT tho).

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/70e734a7-9915-44c8-adec-b4a2.JPG
Split moulds for headlights. Theres never enough pictures of split moulds, haha. It took me ages to get my head around split moulds. Hopefully more experienced people will post pics of multi part moulds.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/5f083ba9-69f5-4371-b3f3-e588.JPG
Pattern made from 2mm steel and 2 steel tubes for the seat bracket mounting I needed. Newbie mistake again by painting it with rattle can primer. I got it painted with proper 2 pack by a paintshop but it still stuck in the mould and took hours to recover by carefully scrapping the paint off the mould surface.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/2b91f25a-2e59-4340-9ca9-4d1e.JPG
Made 4 of these, 1 per seat side.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/42679b42-d86a-4e29-adf2-ae2f.JPG
Exhaust can made with high temp resin and gold heat reflective tape on the inside. Exhaust can and bracket saved 1.6kg over the old stainless steel one.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/8f6fab8e-1a20-4137-b01e-7cc2.JPG
Bracket for exhaust made by squashing steel moulds together. It was a bit dogdy getting it out of the moulds because the surfaces were pretty much parallel.

http://www.talkcomposites.com/Uploads/Images/10e9abaf-ecd0-427b-baac-e962.JPG
My first carbon parts from last winter. I only had to scrap one part and one mould. 

Sorry for the massive first post. I meant to post pics last year but never got round to it. I'd love to hear any advice or comments from the experienced guys on this forum. 

Craig
Edited 11 Years Ago by Brian2fast
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wozza
wozza
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Hi Craig, as you say its difficult to get it to show in a photograph. The spray tack is clearly visible on the surface if you look closely, if removed with acetone you are left with very small low spots in the epoxy where the spray tack has been. This can be rectified with a clear coat but for me that defeats the object.

The reason I spend time on plugs and moulds is so that the part can just be pulled, trimmed, and its ready to go. Adding more time clear coating is a commercial no no for me. You can easily add 2/3 (more on large parts) hours work clear coating which eats into profits and can make the finished costs too high for market.
If you are not meticulous at removing every bit of release agent, key the surface and use an adhesion promoter clear coat can fish eye or cause pin holes either ruining an expensive part or meaning even more additional work is required. If you don't bake 2k it's not particularly tough or hard wearing either.

If a part requires UV protection I use GC50 in mould clear gelcoat. I know it requires spray equipment but so does 2k. If something goes wrong during application you can let it cure then remove it from the mould and start again before using any expensive carbon etc. You can also use virtually any spray tack as it wont affect the surface finish ( I use standard 3m spray mount found in craft stores) or you can actually use the GC50 as a spray tack for the first layer of carbon if you get the timing right. Unlike applying 2k post infusion which will only have a mechanical bond, GC50 will chemically bond to the epoxy and is much tougher/durable. As with most things there are pros and cons, it does mean the infusion has to be spot on as there is little chance of repairing flaws under the gelcoat.

I appreciate for home projects where time is effectively free 2k clear may be the answer but from a commercial side GC50 wins every time.Smile

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
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     looks gorgeous!
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     fantastic job!!
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