Westfield parts from a newbie

Author	Message
Brian2fast	Brian2fast posted 11 Years Ago HOT Topic Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 79, Visits: 1.3K	Hi All This is my first post. I've visited many times and gained lots of very helpful information over the last year so I wanted to post up some of my pics to helpfully help some other newbie. A photograph tells a thousand words so I'll try and keep the words to a minimum. I remember searching for pics of anything carbon when I was starting out. I'm sure there must be lots of people on this forum that could post more pics! My story started when I bought a set of carbon seats and then I need support brackets, I decided to take the plunge and have a go with carbon. This is my first attempt. Wet lay in a mould made from putty. Made 2 of them. I remember being amazed when the first one cracked out the mould. I had a few pin holes on the surface so I clear coated them, about 8 coats! No pics of the pattern I made I'm afraid. I made it from 2mm steel plate welded into shape. Then I made the classic mistake and used rattle can paint. Then I read on this forum about the problems of doing that and before I used it to make the mould I stripped the paint off and used polyester resin (another mistake!! haha). I was very lucky and got away with it tho. The pin holes annoyed me so I decided to try a vacuum infusion. After reading and reading I took the plunge and ordered the starter kit. The next part was a pedal box cover for my Westfield. Again I made the pattern from steel and (yet again) covered it with polyester resin. Then wet sanded till the cows came home..... Used this to make a GRP mould with the green tooling gel. Pattern covered with tooling gel. Few layers of fiberglass over the gel. I remember having trouble doing the gel coat on my first mould. Matt (Easycomposites) suggested doing 2 layers instead of one. Now I always do 2 thinner layers, sometimes 3 if I'm worried about a thin edge. My first infusion. This was nerve racking! haha. I took a long time making sure I didn't have bridging in the center area. I think for me the 2 most important things for doing infusions is take your time with the position of the bag and second is don't rush to put the resin in, always do a vacuum leak test. Always. This was the result of my first infusion. I was pleased with it and could see the potential. Making lightweight, strong, cool looking parts in my garage without relying on outside help, sounds good to me. I had a few marks but these polished out. I had a few pin holes. It took me quite a while to figure out why I was getting these and how to stop. Now I'm quite certain that these were caused by me not degassing the resin correctly. I was always worried the resin was going to set in the pot so I looking back I didn't degas for long enough. Now I degas for about 5 minutes for about 100g of resin. Is this correct? does anybody else have comments or tips about this? My next parts I wanted to make were a full set of pedals, clutch, throttle and brake. I work in an engineering design office so there was plenty of people drawing air thru their teeth when I mentioned I was going to make a carbon brake pedal I knew I need a nice thick lump of carbon for the pedals and I didn't know if I could do an infusion for that. I still don't know. If anybody has any pointers about doing an infusion with parts that are 18mm thick please let me know. I decided to have a go at squashing the carbon between 2 steel moulds. I drew the clutch pedal up first on the CAD at my work, then designed the moulds around that. The 2 sides of the steel mould with the faces skinned with a layer of 1.6mm aluminium. Alloy surface polished to death. Fabric cut out. I had designed the pivot point of the pedal to be a lot thicker than the rest of the pedal but I wanted a smooth curve transition from one thickness to the other, no stress raiser. I did this by cutting out varying sizes of rectangles of fabric (seen to the left in the pic). I wasn't sure this would work but I decided to try. Then I squashed the mould in a vice (nearly broke the vice) and left it for a few days. It took a bit of work splitting open the mould because the resin goes everywhere and locks them together. You can see how the alloy has deformed around the steel plates below when it was squashed. After a lot of cutting and shaping I ended up with these shapes. I had to make another mould for the foot plate. I cut the steel boss out of my old pedal and reused it (no going back after that, lol). I was amazed how stiff and strong the carbon was at this point. I needed a mould for each pedal. Permagrit hole saws and files were used, really good tools. One tip for holesawing thick carbon is try not to cut right through in one. Drill a pilot then cut half way through from both sides. You get a better finish, less filing required. I pressed in little DU glacier bearings for the pivot points. All glued together with Easycomposite structural glue, great stuff. No pics of it but I welded up a little jig to hold the brake pedal and tested it to 100kg, also jumped up and down on it from various weird angles just to convince myself it wouldn't snap. The brake pedal is 6mm thick by 50mm wide and 24mm thick at the pivot end. Does anybody think this is dodgy in anyway? Brake pedal saved 260g. The three pedals and pedalbox panel saved nearly 1kg The new seats (which I bought not made), seat brackets and harnesses saved around 12kg. Well I'm getting bored typing now. I'll post up pics of my other parts from last year and a few of what I'm making just now. Headlights with titanium nut, bolt and stud (always wanted a bit of titanium...) These are the coolest looking bolts I'v seen! lol. I had to cut the head of one bolt and turn it into a stud. If I was doing it again I would make the attaching tabs a little thicker, they are a bit flexy. (Pasted an MOT tho). Split moulds for headlights. Theres never enough pictures of split moulds, haha. It took me ages to get my head around split moulds. Hopefully more experienced people will post pics of multi part moulds. Pattern made from 2mm steel and 2 steel tubes for the seat bracket mounting I needed. Newbie mistake again by painting it with rattle can primer. I got it painted with proper 2 pack by a paintshop but it still stuck in the mould and took hours to recover by carefully scrapping the paint off the mould surface. Made 4 of these, 1 per seat side. Exhaust can made with high temp resin and gold heat reflective tape on the inside. Exhaust can and bracket saved 1.6kg over the old stainless steel one. Bracket for exhaust made by squashing steel moulds together. It was a bit dogdy getting it out of the moulds because the surfaces were pretty much parallel. My first carbon parts from last winter. I only had to scrap one part and one mould. Sorry for the massive first post. I meant to post pics last year but never got round to it. I'd love to hear any advice or comments from the experienced guys on this forum. Craig Edited 11 Years Ago by Brian2fast
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Hanaldo	Hanaldo posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 2.5K, Visits: 28K	I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done without a top coat. I'll finish the piece I'm doing on Monday and get some photos on Tuesday. I can say with 100% certainty that the stuff I am using has absolutely no effect on the surface finish no matter how heavily you apply it.
	Reply Like 2
wozza	wozza posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K	Hanaldo (01/11/2014) I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done without a top coat. I'll finish the piece I'm doing on Monday and get some photos on Tuesday. I can say with 100% certainty that the stuff I am using has absolutely no effect on the surface finish no matter how heavily you apply it. Hanaldo, does the Aerofix 3 you have come out of the tin tinted blue a bit like PVA? My supplier sent me a tin yesterday. Label is virtually identical to the one in your picture apart from it being manufactured by Cytec. Hoping this is the "holy grail" we have all been looking for. Also do you oven or ambient cure? I'm wondering if this has an effect on the surface finish. Carbon Copies Ltd Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
	Reply Like 2
wozza	wozza posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K	Hanaldo (01/11/2014) I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done without a top coat. I'll finish the piece I'm doing on Monday and get some photos on Tuesday. I can say with 100% certainty that the stuff I am using has absolutely no effect on the surface finish no matter how heavily you apply it. Hi Hanaldo, any pictures of the parts using Aerofix 3 without the in mould gelcaot. I infused a part with the UK equivalent I received Friday and can see no difference to previous versions, it is still visible on the surface of the part. Carbon Copies Ltd
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Westfield parts from a newbie

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Hi All These are the parts I'm working on this winter. Iv got a Hayabusa engine with a separate...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

To make the tunnel pattern I welded up the base shape first so I knew the outer dimensions were bang...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Beautiful parts, and nice write up.

wildcard - 11 Years Ago

Thanks for sharing and taking time to document everything! was a pleasure to read everything :)...

matthieutje65 - 11 Years Ago

Some brilliant work here! especially the fine detail and the insane obsession with using as much...

Warren (Staff) - 11 Years Ago

That e-brake is unreal!!

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

Thanks for the nice comments. Warren. I'v never used kevlar before. Would a few layers reduce...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

This is beautiful work. Your stuff with split moulds intrigues me. May I ask how you bonded...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Kevlar adds impact resistance to a laminate so a few layers of kevlar would overall allow a little...

Warren (Staff) - 11 Years Ago

Hi Hanaldo I put release tape along the edge of both halves of the tube handle. (I put tape...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Ahhh I see, thanks for that mate! I am going to be doing quite a few split mold pieces soon, so I'll...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Nice work Brian. It doesn't seem fair that you skipped all the grief we had in the learning process....

fgayford - 11 Years Ago

Craig - some great work there! On the exhaust silencer can - could you elaborate on the stack you...

stuart321 - 11 Years Ago

Hi Fred Thanks for the compliment. Oh I really do know how better off I am with the advantage of...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Thats great thanks! I'm doing some exhaust revisions on the rallycar and may well replace the...

stuart321 - 11 Years Ago

Hi Just a small update. I pulled the transmission tunnel cover out the mould today and was...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

To fill the bubbles. Mix a small amount of epoxy. Fill the voids/bubbles. Then cover with flash...

wildcard - 11 Years Ago

Cheers Wildcard! I'v been thinking about whats caused those bubbles. Would it be the first signs...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

brilliant parts mate, really impressed with the pedals.

Toffee - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Brian2fast (18/02/2014)[/b][hr]Cheers Wildcard! I'v been thinking about whats caused...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Thanks Warren Just to clarify. When I was talking about Soric as a flow media I was meaning can it...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Brian2fast (18/02/2014)[/b][hr]Thanks Warren Just to clarify. When I was talking about...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Did you adhere the flow mesh with spray tac? I ask because spray tacking the mesh, along with the...

wildcard - 11 Years Ago

I am really impressed with your pedals that was really cool set up and use of a compression mold.

combustioncraig - 11 Years Ago

Hi All Just finished the gear stick tonight. Old steel shaft and Momo carbon gearknob (expensive...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Do you have some more details about how you've made the gear stick? :) great work btw!

matthieutje65 - 11 Years Ago

Hi Matthieu Yes my description was a bit vague! Haha Unfortunately I didn't take a photograph...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

looks gorgeous!

wildcard - 11 Years Ago

Hi All This will probably be my last update with new parts this year, hopefully i'll be bolting...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Looking good Craig, its certainly going to be a unique looking Westy. You may want to think about...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]wozza (01/04/2014)[/b][hr]Bloody typical, all that time spent polishing moulds :crying:...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

fantastic job!!

kekko81 - 11 Years Ago

Hi All I'm getting organised for starting my winter carbon projects again. This year I'm hoping to...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Looks well engineered and nicely made :) I have a large degassing chamber that I never use anymore,...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Hi Warren How do you manage to mix up enough resin for a large infusion then? Iv been caught out a...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

I divide my total resin requirement into 400-500 grm batches. I find I can mix those amounts without...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Hi Warren Thanks for that valuable info. You're letting all your secrets out now! :) So you...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Hi Craig, I'm not saying don't try degassing you may find it works for you. :) I've tried the MTI...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

> When I have a line clamp not full open it seems to create bubbles, When I read this, I...

brainfart - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]brainfart (28/09/2014)[/b][hr] > When I have a line clamp not full open it seems to...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

No, I will use it. I made it so I'll dam well use it if kills me, haha. That's great, I've got...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Shell should be going to the paint shop this week for top coat. Then we can start working out...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

MTI Hose is great Brian. Not always necessary, but because it makes it possible to develop a...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

My opinion also ^

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Let me quote this again: > > When I have a line clamp not full open it seems to create...

brainfart - 11 Years Ago

If you read any of my replies to people's questions they are all based around "what works/doesn't...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

> Unfortunately many forums have "armchair experts" who read a question, go off and google it...

brainfart - 11 Years Ago

I would not call myself an "expert" at infusion ... I probably only really have limited experience.....

Dravis - 11 Years Ago

This thread is truly inspirational

Whitebits - 11 Years Ago

Hi All Xmas has arrived early up here in Scotland. Opened up my first big infusion of 2014/15...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Very nice work, going to be one trick looking Westy :) Warren

wozza - 11 Years Ago

The best spray tack to use is one made from infusion resin. Mix up a small batch of resin with...

Warren (Staff) - 11 Years Ago

Aerofix 3 crosslinks with the resin and becomes totally invisible. I did a test the other day,...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Hanaldo (30/10/2014)[/b][hr]Aerofix 3 crosslinks with the resin and becomes totally...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Aerofix 3 isn't epoxy compatable so I would suspect it wouldn't be so invisible without a...

Warren (Staff) - 11 Years Ago

It definitely is. I'll take some pictures today. 100% compatible with epoxy, and 100% invisible...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Thanks Warren. Yes, the aim is to do the complete bodywork with a V join down the middle of the car....

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

This is the stuff I use:...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi Hanaldo Thanks for taking the time to take a picture. The spray I was looking at was marked as...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Sorry Brian, I missed your post on the last page. I did take a picture or what the asterix says,...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Unless they have changed the formulation recently or offer a different version in the UK, we found...

Warren (Staff) - 11 Years Ago

Well I am sure impressed. Now you are addicted like the rest of us. Very nice work!!! Fred

fgayford - 11 Years Ago

I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done without a top coat. I'll finish the...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Hanaldo (01/11/2014)[/b][hr]I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Hanaldo (01/11/2014)[/b][hr]I unfortunately don't have any pictures of a piece I've done...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Yes that's the one. Sprays on blue but dries as a white powder. Generally I ambient cure, as I only...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi Fred. Thanks for the nice comment. Good to hear from an experienced person that I'm heading the...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Sorry mate, have been dealing with disaster after disaster here. Always a stressful week in the...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

[quote][b]Hanaldo (06/11/2014)[/b][hr]Sorry mate, have been dealing with disaster after disaster...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Right, as promised. This is straight out of the mould, literally dropped it out and took these...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi Hanaldo, thank's for taking the time to post the pictures. I suppose much depends upon personal...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Sorry, should have clarified that. I don't have very high gloss moulds because I blend my own...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

I didn't realise accessing materials was such an issue for you. I know of a couple of companies...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

They are accessible here, the issue is that if you are buying small quantities (read: less than 200L...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hanaldo and Warren, thanks for going to the effort of testing and posting results. I find carbon to...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Even with 3M Super 77 all I ever needed to do was wipe the surface with acetone and then polish....

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi Craig, as you say its difficult to get it to show in a photograph. The spray tack is clearly...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Totally agree, I think in mould coatings are the way to go. I use Duratec Sunshield myself, and I...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Yes I can see how in-mould coatings will have a better long term chemical bond than clear coat. I...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

All valid points and questions, will try to answer them as best I can :) Spraying the GC50 does...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Hi All Thanks for the detailed reply Warren. All these small details help to build up the bigger...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Hi Craig, is there any part of that Westy that isn't going to be CF? be careful it may blow away in...

wozza - 11 Years Ago

Is that company Italian by any chance Warren?

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi guys, Just jumping back to the discussion in relation to the Aerofix 3, which Elite Composites...

Elitec - 11 Years Ago

Hi Phill Thanks for the extra information. Just today I did two infusions on nearly identical...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Hi Craig, I am sure you will find the Aerofix 3 is the business. If you have less than expected...

Elitec - 11 Years Ago

Hi All I opened up the two infusions today, one with Aerofix 3 spray and the other was meths/epoxy...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Hi All Pulled the scuttle panel out the mould. Had a bit of hassle with getting the bag to hold...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Yeh I always seal up my split moulds with silicone before bagging them to save resin being leached...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

ANY IMAGE PLEASE WHERE YOU INSERT NEW PIECE OF CARBON WHERE ANGLE TO DIFFICULT? how you do that so...

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

He is using set-weave carbon so it's much easier, but generally if you've got a shape that is too...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

any luck with images how to do that? so that would help me a lot

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

I didn't take any photographs when I was laying the first layer of fabric I'm afraid. I'll try and...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

so you say first piece to cut straight then next piece from other side if goes to do longer and...

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

Nah overlap the second piece. So you only need to cut one piece perfectly (and to be honest, if...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Thank you a lot im going to try to do this. any advise if i want to do like this sheet- 1 layer...

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

Same result as in surface finish or thickness or what?

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

no im simply asking you think these cards he used what im thinking to lay or you think to thin? also...

TomDesign - 11 Years Ago

A quick update. Today was the first time I have seen the new scuttle panel outside in sunlight and I...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Well that's interesting. Have you got any photos?

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

I tried taking a couple of pics. In the photographs it doesn't really look like what it is in real...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

Ah yep, I see it. Well I guess that confirms the IN2 resin isn't compatible which is both intriguing...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

As I said before, make your own spray adhesive by mixing resin and hardener non-stoichometrically...

brainfart - 11 Years Ago

Hi Hanaldo I tried polishing it out but nope, its embedded through the resin not just sitting on...

Brian2fast - 11 Years Ago

MEK is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, it's a type of solvent. Not as aggressive as acetone so better for...

Hanaldo - 11 Years Ago

Hi All Looking for opinions and advice. My latest part is the nosecone. Before I took a mould off...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

I can't help you with your current issue but I must say this is extremly inspireing (just read the...

Bean Bandit - 10 Years Ago

The only thing I can think of is that you need to add a bit of bracing to the original nose cone...

scottracing - 10 Years Ago

Hi All I thought I was up a certain creak without a paddle last Sunday. I struggled for 10 hours...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

looking good, well worth all the effort!

scottracing - 10 Years Ago

Looking good ! Feeling your pain over the demoulding issues, lol @ garden hose...

davro - 10 Years Ago

Hi Thanks for the encouraging comments (and videos, lol). I meant to say in my last post. I had...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

Carbon build off! Brain2Fast V davro round 1, who's bling will be the lightest lol. I am...

davro - 10 Years Ago

Perhaps it is the size of the part, but your flanges look quite small on that bonnet? You'd be...

Hanaldo - 10 Years Ago

I follow hanaldo on this one! about the bag...never had problems with the green bag and think its...

matthieutje65 - 10 Years Ago

Good point Hanaldo about the flanges. I have a standard 4" flange on all my moulds now after having...

davro - 10 Years Ago

A quick tip with vac bags is to wet the bag. Get a garden plant spray gun. The finer the mist the...

scottracing - 10 Years Ago

Davro, knew you'd be up for a laugh! The British carbon bake off! Haha Do you have a one piece...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

[quote][b]Brian2fast (03/04/2015)[/b][hr] Davro, knew you'd be up for a laugh! The British carbon...

davro - 10 Years Ago

no worries,all tips I learnt from my time in motorsports plus im also a scotsman and no that money...

scottracing - 10 Years Ago

Hi Dave Blat technology sounds very appropriate! You'll be fitting a big fan at the rear for more...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

wauu, great work. definitively, i still most like the pedalls :) how much weight saving you managed...

tomzi1234 - 10 Years Ago

Yup I saw Matthieu's multiple part vertical infusion, interesting ... Your bonnet mould is...

davro - 10 Years Ago

Looks like a nice mould ;) Glad you liked my video Brian2Fast ;)

matthieutje65 - 10 Years Ago

Quick update and excuses...... The bonnet mould turned out not bad but similar to the nose cone...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

The surface reflections will probably be caused by uneven shrinkage. Happens when the exotherm gets...

Hanaldo - 10 Years Ago

It could be the gel although the Unimould is very low shrinkage. It could also be over application...

Warren (Staff) - 10 Years Ago

Thanks for both your replies, much appreciated. Hanaldo. Yeah, I was thinking the problem was heat...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

Nice video, hope you and the bike are ok after the ending ;) Youtube embed does seem to be broken...

davro - 10 Years Ago

Ah! Thanks Davro, your not only a carbon baker but an IT guru as well! Yeah both the bike and me...

Brian2fast - 10 Years Ago

Well this was a long time in the making...... Haha Eventually sprayed this with 2k clear coat and...

Brian2fast - 9 Years Ago

Looking good Craig ! Sounds like you have the right spraying mask ... Never used a 2K spray rattle...

davro - 9 Years Ago

Hi Dave So you've done a fair bit of 2k clear spraying now then? Never had any problems with...

Brian2fast - 9 Years Ago

How's your ventilation in the area you are spraying? I find ventilation is far more important than...

Hanaldo - 9 Years Ago

Hi Brian, I run everything off the same compressor and the compressor is getting it's fresh air...

davro - 9 Years Ago

Hi All Just finished spraying 2k clear over the first bodywork part. I used Quartz Liquid...

Brian2fast - 9 Years Ago

Sounds like a thin coating. Looks outstanding, but if you want to find a coating that you don't have...

Hanaldo - 9 Years Ago

Hi All Thought I would update this and put some pics up of the finished parts after many hours...

Brian2fast - 9 Years Ago

Looking very nice a whole lot of sanding and polishing :) How are you going to fix the rear and...

davro - 9 Years Ago

Hi Dave Sorry for the late reply! I don't have a middle rear view mirror and my side mirrors...

Brian2fast - 9 Years Ago

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