Easy & vari-preg use with UDs & Nomex


Author
Message
wozza
wozza
Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K
So far there has been no mention of moulds. Making moulds of this size suitable for prepreg or infusion for that matter will be costly, especially given that your basement workshop prevents the use of polyester.

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 10 Years Ago by wozza
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)Supreme Being (4.8K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 955, Visits: 3.4K
I'm following warren and ChrisR on this one,
A lot of companies doing big parts still use infusion. 
Using prepreg isn't like using a carbonfiber sticker you can easily apply and move on, you have to be very careful in the lay up, and it can take you some time.
sometimes I'm working more than one hour on a small 30cm by 20cm part to get everything correct, cutting the prepreg templates can be time consuming, the lay up can take a lot of time, then you need to debulk and bag under a perfect vacuum without any air leak. 

But I wont say its impossible and its good that you are dedicated to do it that way! 
Keep us updated on the progress once you start!

Best of luck

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




wozza
wozza
Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K
ChrisR (23/10/2014)
Quite a few marine builders still use poly resin as they know how it works from the old CSM & wet lay days. (And it's cheaper) Also, don't forget one of the primary benefits of using poly resins is the fast cure time and people don't tend to get reactive to poly resins like you do with epoxy


You can't get much more expensive than prepreg taking everything into account which is what he is wanting to use. Your not going to get a strong lightweight hull using poly even using infusion. In my opinion/experience Smile

Carbon Copies Ltd
ChrisR
ChrisR
Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 363, Visits: 3K
Quite a few marine builders still use poly resin as they know how it works from the old CSM & wet lay days. (And it's cheaper) Also, don't forget one of the primary benefits of using poly resins is the fast cure time and people don't tend to get reactive to poly resins like you do with epoxy

Edit: the suggestion that he doesn't want to use infusion because of the fumes looks to be because he is planning on doing it at home in the garage (so it may attach to the house and with winter coming you're not going to have the doors open!)

Personally, I think epoxy infusion is probably the best way forward but I also wouldn't exclude OOA prepreg (although prepreg will be more expensive and as stated has a few other issues with larger projects) - A lot of large area composites infuse (large boats, wind turbine blades etc.) so I'm sure they have done a lot more research on it and have decided that infusion is the best method for the application.

One thing to note, with OOA prepreg you still need to debaulk at regular intervals - most datasheets recommend after the 1st layer then after subsequent 2/3 layers and some even have a low temp debaulk to help things along. This all adds to the time and cost of the project with more consumable materials.
Edited 10 Years Ago by ChrisR
wozza
wozza
Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K
Perhaps I have misunderstood. From the outset weight and strength have been the criteria. Fumes from polyester were quoted as reasons for not using infusion. Why would you want to use polyester given all its disadvantages?
Warren.

Carbon Copies Ltd
ChrisR
ChrisR
Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)Supreme Being (1.8K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 363, Visits: 3K
Guys, I'm not sure where the confusion is? I've used polyester infusion resin before so I don't think he is confusing resins.
wozza
wozza
Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K
I have to admire your confidence. It's an ambitious project and will require an equally ambitious budget. Not knowing the difference between polyester and epoxy resins suggests more research is needed.
Good luck, Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
brainfart
brainfart
Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)Supreme Being (1.1K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 198, Visits: 1.4K
Epoxy isn't polyester. There is no smell issue, certainly not when infusing.

If that Gurit stuff is low temp curing you could most likely use it together with the Easypreg.
c01df1sh
c01df1sh
Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)Forum Member (30 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4, Visits: 12
I did give infusion a good deal of thought - it is a process we use at work and I know well, although we inject the (polyester) resin as well as drawing it through with the vacuum. The largest parts that I am looking to make would be a maximum 6m long by 0.5m wide by 0.2m deep (i.e. half an 18' hull), so we are not talking about a huge item to lay up & it is a pretty simple laminate; so the out life of the prepreg should not be a factor.

I'd still need an oven to post cure the infused laminate, although it might be at a lower temperature, just to avoid the inevitable core block print through. The oven would still need controls, etc. so not much saving there either. I was woring on a scalable design for the oven so that I could build it in sections, say 2m at a time. I could then "practice" on some smaller parts - rudders, etc. - before working on the larger parts. This would at least give some confidence in the controllability of the oven and reduce the likelihood of scrap parts.

I could go down the route of the Gruit SE84 prepreg with the associated / compatible surfacing resin, adhesive layers, etc. This is an 80 degree C cure. Additionally, there would be no open resin mix and hence a much lower smell issue (I am looking at working in my garage in a residential area!).

Thanks for the continued contributions, all food for thought!
wozza
wozza
Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)Supreme Being (3.2K reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 688, Visits: 5.4K
This is not me being critical but I have to agree with Matthieu. Out of autoclave pre pregs need carefully controlled heat cycles to perform well. It is not an easy task building a DIY oven of that size and to be able to control very accurately the temperature evenly throughout it and achieve temperatures in excess of 100 degrees C.
I would also be going the infusion route, much cheaper, easier to control the amount of resin in the laminate, good choice of usable cores and just as strong if done correctly. You could also use less expensive moulding materials.
Also that would be a pretty lengthy layup in pre preg, Out life could also be an issues unless you have access to a cold room.
Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 10 Years Ago by wozza
GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...




Similar Topics

Reading This Topic

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search