Working with Phenolic Glass Prepreg (Hand Lay-up)

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Working with Phenolic Glass Prepreg (Hand Lay-up) - Aeronautic Industry

Author	Message
Vicotex	Vicotex posted 11 Years Ago HOT Topic Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 3, Visits: 20	Dear all, I would like to know if someone can provide me information (not MSDS, I already have it) regarding the use of phenolic glass prepreg. Do you know any kind of manual or work-book with good practices, protection equipment (like the kind of gloves) or other type of information when working with this material? I'm preparing a document/specification but since it will be the first time working with this kind of material, I would appreciate – if possible - your help in this issue. I'm trying to reunite the best amount of information I can. Beyond the material safety issue I've got some more important questions related with this phenolic glass prepreg material: 1) Problem found: Extreme difficulty in taking out one of the protective foils from the phenolic prepreg. Problem description: After normal defreeze and plies cutting, we found out that is extremely difficult taking out the blue foil from the phenolic prepreg. We have the green foil side and this one is ok but the blue foil had the following behavior (as we can see in the photo-sequence below) which make it very hard to lay up, almost impossible. This prepreg behavior doesn’t seem us normal, so we questioned the manufacturer who replied saying that "Phenolic prepreg can be very tacky and due to raw material, the tack can vary from tack to extremely tacky. Some customers are peeling the foil at low temperature (freezer or cold room)." Does anyone already face this type of situation? Figure 1 Green protective foil taking out easily Figure 2 Blue protective foil Figure 3 Blue protective foil extreme difficulty to be taken out Figure 4 Blue protective foil continuously difficulty to be taken out and starting to deform the fibers and integrity of the prepreg 2) Another situation is that due to the high tack, gloves (latex) are trapped in prepreg, completely glued. How do I avoid this? 3) I've heard of ice spray to facilitate the removal of foils. Do you know any application of it in prepreg's? 4) To clean up the molds (metal), beyond MEK or acetone, do you know or advise some other product(s) to clean the phenolic waste? Thank you all in advance! Rui V. Tags glass phenolic prepreg tack tacky Edited 11 Years Ago by Vicotex
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fgayford	fgayford posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 433, Visits: 1.2K	Vicotex (13/06/2013) Dear all, I would like to know if someone can provide me information (not MSDS, I already have it) regarding the use of phenolic glass prepreg. Do you know any kind of manual or work-book with good practices, protection equipment (like the kind of gloves) or other type of information when working with this material? I'm preparing a document/specification but since it will be the first time working with this kind of material, I would appreciate – if possible - your help in this issue. I'm trying to reunite the best amount of information I can. Beyond the material safety issue I've got some more important questions related with this phenolic glass prepreg material: 1) Problem found: Extreme difficulty in taking out one of the protective foils from the phenolic prepreg. Problem description: After normal defreeze and plies cutting, we found out that is extremely difficult taking out the blue foil from the phenolic prepreg. We have the green foil side and this one is ok but the blue foil had the following behavior (as we can see in the photo-sequence below) which make it very hard to lay up, almost impossible. This prepreg behavior doesn’t seem us normal, so we questioned the manufacturer who replied saying that "Phenolic prepreg can be very tacky and due to raw material, the tack can vary from tack to extremely tacky. Some customers are peeling the foil at low temperature (freezer or cold room)." Does anyone already face this type of situation? Figure 1 Green protective foil taking out easily Figure 2 Blue protective foil Figure 3 Blue protective foil extreme difficulty to be taken out Figure 4 Blue protective foil continuously difficulty to be taken out and starting to deform the fibers and integrity of the prepreg 2) Another situation is that due to the high tack, gloves (latex) are trapped in prepreg, completely glued. How do I avoid this? 3) I've heard of ice spray to facilitate the removal of foils. Do you know any application of it in prepreg's? 4) To clean up the molds (metal), beyond MEK or acetone, do you know or advise some other product(s) to clean the phenolic waste? Thank you all in advance! Rui V. I was getting frustrated with prepreg carbon also for the same reason. Try this. Cut your pieces out and put them back in the freezer for a short time. Now take them out and peel off all the blue plastic before it has time to get sticky. You didn't have problems with the other side so now you can peel that off with out having to rush. Hope this helps. Fred
	Reply Like 3
fgayford	fgayford posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 433, Visits: 1.2K	Vicotex (13/06/2013) Dear all, I would like to know if someone can provide me information (not MSDS, I already have it) regarding the use of phenolic glass prepreg. Do you know any kind of manual or work-book with good practices, protection equipment (like the kind of gloves) or other type of information when working with this material? I'm preparing a document/specification but since it will be the first time working with this kind of material, I would appreciate – if possible - your help in this issue. I'm trying to reunite the best amount of information I can. Beyond the material safety issue I've got some more important questions related with this phenolic glass prepreg material: 1) Problem found: Extreme difficulty in taking out one of the protective foils from the phenolic prepreg. Problem description: After normal defreeze and plies cutting, we found out that is extremely difficult taking out the blue foil from the phenolic prepreg. We have the green foil side and this one is ok but the blue foil had the following behavior (as we can see in the photo-sequence below) which make it very hard to lay up, almost impossible. This prepreg behavior doesn’t seem us normal, so we questioned the manufacturer who replied saying that "Phenolic prepreg can be very tacky and due to raw material, the tack can vary from tack to extremely tacky. Some customers are peeling the foil at low temperature (freezer or cold room)." Does anyone already face this type of situation? Figure 1 Green protective foil taking out easily Figure 2 Blue protective foil Figure 3 Blue protective foil extreme difficulty to be taken out Figure 4 Blue protective foil continuously difficulty to be taken out and starting to deform the fibers and integrity of the prepreg 2) Another situation is that due to the high tack, gloves (latex) are trapped in prepreg, completely glued. How do I avoid this? 3) I've heard of ice spray to facilitate the removal of foils. Do you know any application of it in prepreg's? 4) To clean up the molds (metal), beyond MEK or acetone, do you know or advise some other product(s) to clean the phenolic waste? Thank you all in advance! Rui V. House hold Vinegar cleans up epoxy quite well. Fred
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Vicotex	Vicotex posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 3, Visits: 20	Hello Fred! That's what we're trying to do, after room temperature, use again a short time in freezer and then peel off the foil. We're now making some prototypes to test it and to see the minimum time necessary because of condensation. Do you have problems during the lay-up? As far as I can see, maybe will be necessary two persons to lay-up because when a plie sticks into another it's very complicated to take it out again, so it must be very accurate! Thank you Fred!
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carboncactus	carboncactus posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 243, Visits: 1K	I have a similar problem with a product from PRF. When its at room temperature its fine, but when you start handling it, your hands warm it up and it gets messy. What I do is peel off the first layer and handle it from the other (still filmed) side. I then laminate, not worrying about getting my hands sticky as im touching the plastic film. Push, tuck, nib, slice etc. When Im happy with placement, I take a razor blade and nib a corner, kinda like a stab/flick/scratch movement. This peels off about 2-3mm of film. I grab that corner and........ rip it with furious anger and no remorse! When you peel it quickly, it just comes off without pulling the prepreg. In a controlled way mind you! Not perpendicular to the surface, but as close to the laminate as possible, as if you were peeling vinyl wrap. otherwise you risk pulling the prepreg and creating a bridge. Although if this happens all you have to do is get some of that same film and push it back. Edited 11 Years Ago by carboncactus
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Vicotex	Vicotex posted 11 Years Ago HOT Post Details
Group: Forum Members Posts: 3, Visits: 20	Hello! Because we have one sticky side, it seems a good idea to first take out the blue foil (in cold temperature) and lay-up with the other foil (green) in. Then, after all the necessary maneuvers, take out the "easy" green foil. Then, next ply, same procedure. Maybe it will help! The parts are not very complex but have some radius and angles. Let's see if it works despite the challenge that will be the sticky side in the back of the last layer! Thank you carboncactus!
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