XC 110 210g (two layers) sticking to glass plate altough using 6 layers of 'Easy-Lease Chemical...


XC 110 210g (two layers) sticking to glass plate altough using 6 layers of 'Easy-Lease Chemical...
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Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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Yes it is possible that could be an issue.  Certainly something we will keep an eye on to see if it is a problem.

Missed your comment about already ordering some ELRA before we had dispatched the FOC replacement.  If you want to return one to us we can always still credit it back off that order if you don't think you will use it up.



Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Hanaldo
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Very interesting. Actually not an unreasonable suggestion, I know the tool sealer I use here (similar to S120) has a warning in the TDS about not downpacking into plastic containers due to the hygroscopic nature of a lot of plastics used in packaging. Even HDPE, which is not hygroscopic, is prone to collecting moisture on its surface which can then contaminate what is inside the container.

Seems plausible given chemical release agents share the same moisture sensitivity. 
Andre Hartmann
Andre Hartmann
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I received the new batch I ordered just before the weekend and was able to do several cure cycles in the past days. What can I say, the new release agent works fine and the sheets just peel of the glass as easy as before. Perfect results!

Looks like it's a problem with the plastic packing of the small bottle causing this problem?
Andre Hartmann
Andre Hartmann
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Hi Matt, Hi Warren,

thanks for your messages and the detailed informations!

My last thought was also to try a new bottle of the release agent, so I already ordered a new one yesterday, this time as well a 500 ml metal can like the one before. This has already been dispatched yesterday and should arrive tomorrow. Can't you rather credit it before you send me another one?

1. Our glas sheets are 600x400mm and 6mm thick, it is also standart toughned with non special coatings.
2. New sheets are also cleaned with Easy-Lease Mould Cleaner before the first application of the release agent.
3/4. For the application of Easy-Lease Mould Cleaner, we also use the lint free cloths from your shop. The application itself is the same one that you described. But we apply 6 Layers as described in the Application Guide.
5. We normaly wait at least 1 hour but have also waited overnight.
6. Release is like described above at the moment, but also had perfect ones before.

Our cure cycle is the standart one from the xc110 technical datasheet. To prevent any pinholes in the surface of our sheets we put the material in the oven at 60C for a hour before using it.




Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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I have managed to find your details and will get some replacement EasyLease off to you.

Let us know how you get on and if you solve the problem.

Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Matt (Staff)
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Matt (Staff) - 4/16/2020 8:29:57 AM
Hi Andre,

We too use glass sheets and the XC110 prepreg to produce perfect finish carbon fibre sheets; our manufacturing department uses this combination every day to produce 20+ sqm of sheet so this is a combination we know very well. We have no reported issues with Easy-Lease and have not experienced any problems ourselves, however, to rule that out and get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible for you I think it's probably a good idea to send you a new bottle out of the very latest batch. I'll also check which batch we're using in manufacturing at the moment.

I can see that Warren has mentioned this already but it will probably be helpful to you if I reiterate our own application process for our glass sheets. Our life-cycle looks like this:
  1. We use brand new, standard toughened glass sheets (with NO special coatings, UV filters or other treatments)
  2. New sheets are cleaned with mould cleaner to remove any residual contaminants from the manufacturing process.
  3. We use lint free cloths to apply Easy-Lease chemical release agent. We normally use 2 small pads, one wet with release agent and the other clean. As we wipe on gently with the wet one, we wait a few seconds for the solvent to evaporate and then very gentle wipe over with the dry one to smooth out the application. This is to prevent any smears.
  4. We wait 15-20 mins and repeat the above step. We apply 5 applications in total, to a new sheet.
  5. We wait several hours before using the glass sheet in production.
  6. Release will be perfect, the carbon will just peel away from the glass.
  7. We then re-apply the one application of release agent, in the same way.
  8. The cycle continues of re-applying once each release.
Using this process we have never had a sheet stick in my memory (more than 8 years of production like this) and our carbon fibre sheets have a completely perfect surface finish. So, I'm sure we can help you to get the same!

The only things that affect the release are as follows, and all of these factors are KNOWN to affect the release so they all need thinking about:
  1. The release agent: Is it suitable? (Easy-Lease is). Is it in date? Has it been stored correctly? (lid tightly sealed).
  2. The glass sheets: Are they plain, toughened glass or are they treated or coated in some way?
  3. The cure: Has the prepreg fully cured before you try to release it. If it's not fully cured, it will really stick to the glass sheets, no matter how good the release agent it.
So, you'll notice that the one we've not explored here is #3, the level of cure. As you'll know, aluminium is a great conductor of heat. Your aluminium sheets are also possibly quite thin. Both these things mean that the prepreg on the aluminium sheets will get the heat from the oven very quickly. Glass on the other hand is not such a great conductor of heat and your sheets are probably thicker too meaning it's possible that in the same oven the prepreg for the aluminium sheets is being more fully cured than the prepreg on the glass sheets.

We'll arrange to send some new release agent out to you to rule that one out. I suggest you look into the glass you're using to check there's nothing strange about that and also check your cure cycle to ensure you're achieving a FULL cure on the prepreg. There's no harm in curing for longer so that's an easy one to rule out too. The answer can only be one of these three things.

All the best, Matt


@Andre Hartmann please email support@easycomposites.co.uk with us your company/order details; I'm struggling to find you on our system. Thanks.

Matt Statham
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Sales
Matt (Staff)
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Hi Andre,

We too use glass sheets and the XC110 prepreg to produce perfect finish carbon fibre sheets; our manufacturing department uses this combination every day to produce 20+ sqm of sheet so this is a combination we know very well. We have no reported issues with Easy-Lease and have not experienced any problems ourselves, however, to rule that out and get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible for you I think it's probably a good idea to send you a new bottle out of the very latest batch. I'll also check which batch we're using in manufacturing at the moment.

I can see that Warren has mentioned this already but it will probably be helpful to you if I reiterate our own application process for our glass sheets. Our life-cycle looks like this:
  1. We use brand new, standard toughened glass sheets (with NO special coatings, UV filters or other treatments)
  2. New sheets are cleaned with mould cleaner to remove any residual contaminants from the manufacturing process.
  3. We use lint free cloths to apply Easy-Lease chemical release agent. We normally use 2 small pads, one wet with release agent and the other clean. As we wipe on gently with the wet one, we wait a few seconds for the solvent to evaporate and then very gentle wipe over with the dry one to smooth out the application. This is to prevent any smears.
  4. We wait 15-20 mins and repeat the above step. We apply 5 applications in total, to a new sheet.
  5. We wait several hours before using the glass sheet in production.
  6. Release will be perfect, the carbon will just peel away from the glass.
  7. We then re-apply the one application of release agent, in the same way.
  8. The cycle continues of re-applying once each release.
Using this process we have never had a sheet stick in my memory (more than 8 years of production like this) and our carbon fibre sheets have a completely perfect surface finish. So, I'm sure we can help you to get the same!

The only things that affect the release are as follows, and all of these factors are KNOWN to affect the release so they all need thinking about:
  1. The release agent: Is it suitable? (Easy-Lease is). Is it in date? Has it been stored correctly? (lid tightly sealed).
  2. The glass sheets: Are they plain, toughened glass or are they treated or coated in some way?
  3. The cure: Has the prepreg fully cured before you try to release it. If it's not fully cured, it will really stick to the glass sheets, no matter how good the release agent it.
So, you'll notice that the one we've not explored here is #3, the level of cure. As you'll know, aluminium is a great conductor of heat. Your aluminium sheets are also possibly quite thin. Both these things mean that the prepreg on the aluminium sheets will get the heat from the oven very quickly. Glass on the other hand is not such a great conductor of heat and your sheets are probably thicker too meaning it's possible that in the same oven the prepreg for the aluminium sheets is being more fully cured than the prepreg on the glass sheets.

We'll arrange to send some new release agent out to you to rule that one out. I suggest you look into the glass you're using to check there's nothing strange about that and also check your cure cycle to ensure you're achieving a FULL cure on the prepreg. There's no harm in curing for longer so that's an easy one to rule out too. The answer can only be one of these three things.

All the best, Matt


Matt Statham
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Sales
Andre Hartmann
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@ Hanaldo
I apply the release agent exactly as specified, I put thin coats on and wait about 15 mins or longer between them. As said before the problem has only just started with the new batch of the release agent. Until the old one was outdatet it worked just fine.

@John Hansen
Thanks for your advice. Tried it, unfortunately it makes no difference. :-(
John Hansen
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While the issue seems to be the application of the release agent or the release agent itself, I might suggest that heating (of freezing) the glass after the CF is cured may assist in the release of the CF composite from the surface of the glass.
The coefficient of expansion of the glass and the CF are close to each other but the resin in the CF composite sheet will shrink or expand slightly more at the surface than the glass sheet. I think this may be worth trying as it is rather easy using a common heat gun on the glass side only. Lay the CF down onto a flat metal surface to act as a heat sink that will keep the CF at room temperature while heating the glass.


A Lifelong Learner

Hanaldo
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Potentially an application issue. How heavy/wet are you putting on each coat? How long are you waiting between coats? 
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