Glass cast 3 drying time on a penny floor


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Dawn
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We have laid a penny floor and 42 hours ago we sealed it with the glasscast 3 resin. However we are  little bit concerned that 42 hours later, although most of it is rock solid there are still a number of sticky patches remaining is this normal??
Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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Typically at 20C you would expect initial firm hard cure at around 24 hours. 
Cooler temperatures can take a lot longer.

However if it is curing with sticky patches that don't go away, then generally the sticky patches are areas of improperly cured resin. - usually from too quick mixing or quite commonly  scraping the dregs off the side of the mixing bucket  (especially if only one was used) .  The patches are in essence not fully cured..

If you can get fan heaters on it and raise the temperature  then if the error is minor, it may naturally harden, otherwise the only solution is to sand back and re-coat.


Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Dawn
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after 48 hours upon reading your reply we tried a fan heater as you suggested for 8 hours and left the resin in an isolated room for a further 54 hours...
Upon inspection after a total of 5 days the GlassCast3 appeared to be no different to when I first messaged you (after 42 hours), however on closer inspection (after 5 days) the condition of the resin is far worse than we first thought. What I thought were sticky patches were actually sticky holes that you could sink your finger in to touch the pennies underneath, you took your finger out and it left a tacky hole - which then self levelled and filled itself back up in under 60 seconds!?!?
Upon trying to scrape up a section of the viscous area we found there was no end to it... even underneath the parts that we believed were solid the bottom half of the resin was all still liquid!
This is the condition of the resin after 5 1/2 days...(see picture)
The entire surface is easily lifting up and cracking away, leaving a horrible sticky mess underneath... there are only very minimal areas where the resin has seemingly cured all the way through.
We followed the instructional video to the letter, used the correct ratios by weight, used two containers and mixed for the correct time.. How can this happen? What can have caused this? Needless to say we are extremely disappointed and more importantly, what can be done to remove the gooey mess and somehow rescue the floor that took 2 weeks of our spare time to set down in the first place?
Needless to say we are extremely disappointed with your product, which now seems a complete waste of money and we need you to offer some professional advise to help us remedy the situation?
Video to follow if required, it won't let us upload it on here, but I can upload it to youtube and link you to it if you wish?
Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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What a nightmare that picture shows! I can see how you must be frustrated with the end result, especially with the time laying the pennies down - especially in that special layout.   Unfortunately we can only see that some form of mixing error has occurred to cause that result.  Some bits, as you say, have cured properly on the surface which tells me that some bits of the resin did fully cure and were hence fully mixed.  I understand you mentioned that you were careful to follow the instructions and chances are it's just a simple mistake or oversight that has ruined the project.  It sounds like it is something simple like several containers were mixed up and in a simple error, one was missed  and made its way onto the floor thus meaning the resin all mixed together to make a mass that in places is fine and the rest not fine.  It would, to an extent make sense for some of the mixed resin to rise as it settles and begins to cure which could explain the reason why the top in many areas seemed fine.  Or it could be the last bucket poured out was fully mixed and covered over the poorly mixed batch. We know of a few people who have made similar mistakes. I did something similar when doing a lego table with GlassCast, although luckily I realised long before it was curing so recovery was a bit easier.

Without having been there and with the elapsed time, I doubt it would be possible to work out exactly what happened. The next focus is to try and recover the floor as best you can. If the whole lot is peeling off as in the photo, peel off as much of the resin as you can.  Then using a plastic scraper (even a cut up old milk container or similar), scoop up and remove as much of the runny resin as you can.  Then you would need to use rags to get the floor as dry as possible.  It will still likely be tacky at this point from acetone residue. You can then use a cloth made slightly wet, but not soaked, in acetone to break down and remove the remaining tacky feel.  Don't go too liberal with the acetone or rub too hard as it is quite a strong cleaning solvent and you wouldn't want to clean up the tarnished pennies.  Just wiping over should be enough to get rid of most of the tack.  Once all dried and fully clean, you would be ready to go again.  If you have any more questions then please let me know.


Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Dawn
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Warren (Staff) - 6/25/2018 4:20:30 PM
What a nightmare that picture shows! I can see how you must be frustrated with the end result, especially with the time laying the pennies down - especially in that special layout.   Unfortunately we can only see that some form of mixing error has occurred to cause that result.  Some bits, as you say, have cured properly on the surface which tells me that some bits of the resin did fully cure and were hence fully mixed.  I understand you mentioned that you were careful to follow the instructions and chances are it's just a simple mistake or oversight that has ruined the project.  It sounds like it is something simple like several containers were mixed up and in a simple error, one was missed  and made its way onto the floor thus meaning the resin all mixed together to make a mass that in places is fine and the rest not fine.  It would, to an extent make sense for some of the mixed resin to rise as it settles and begins to cure which could explain the reason why the top in many areas seemed fine.  Or it could be the last bucket poured out was fully mixed and covered over the poorly mixed batch. We know of a few people who have made similar mistakes. I did something similar when doing a lego table with GlassCast, although luckily I realised long before it was curing so recovery was a bit easier.

Without having been there and with the elapsed time, I doubt it would be possible to work out exactly what happened. The next focus is to try and recover the floor as best you can. If the whole lot is peeling off as in the photo, peel off as much of the resin as you can.  Then using a plastic scraper (even a cut up old milk container or similar), scoop up and remove as much of the runny resin as you can.  Then you would need to use rags to get the floor as dry as possible.  It will still likely be tacky at this point from acetone residue. You can then use a cloth made slightly wet, but not soaked, in acetone to break down and remove the remaining tacky feel.  Don't go too liberal with the acetone or rub too hard as it is quite a strong cleaning solvent and you wouldn't want to clean up the tarnished pennies.  Just wiping over should be enough to get rid of most of the tack.  Once all dried and fully clean, you would be ready to go again.  If you have any more questions then please let me know.

Hi, it wasnt the mix, as we only used 4 containers, 2 for each batch, which was pre measured by yourselves, each container was discarded and thrown out after each pour. These were brand new, so were spotlessly clean. We followed your instructions to the letter to ensure what we thought was a perfect mix,  both I and my partner Martyn made sure neither of us made any errors... We did not pour any fresh resin on top of a poor mix either. We used 1 x 5Kg mix to cover one half of the room and within 15 min we mixed the other 5Kg mix to cover remaining half of the room.
The situation is that hopeless, and after spending 48hrs trying to recover the floor, chasing sticky part after sticky part, there was no end to the mess.
We have no choice now but to rip up the whole piece of art work and start a fresh ( gutted ) delaying the whole project ( and our only bathroom)  by 4 weeks.
The situation is what it is, but i would appreciate it if you would investigate further as to how this could have happened.
In the mean time we have decided to give it another go, but before we attempt to use this resin again please can you advise if there are any cleaning techniques we should avoid when cleaning the penny's, ie, using a solution of white vinegar and salt, or soaking with coke and then rinsing with warm tap water.
 



Warren (Staff)
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Hi Dawn

Thanks for getting back to me.  Its a real shame you can't get enough of the mess up to be able to leave the pennies in place..  That is a lot of extra work and I can completely understand how soul destroying that must be.  I would seriously consider another attempt at cleaning the  resin off, even scraping it off as a gloop then using acetone to soften anything that's too hard to easily scrape off. Unless the resin has fully hardened, I would expect it is easier to get the resin off the floor than the bonded down pennies off the floor.    If you have to remove the pennies, you can use acetone to wipe down the coins, although only  use what you need rather than soaking the coins for a period of time.  Most solvents or acidic/caustic cleaning agents will strip off the  oxidization off the coins leaving them as new. - coke is a classic  example of this - a few pennies left in a glass of coke overnight will  be shiny and clean by the morning in most cases. 

Doing a bit more investigation, I have checked the batch of resin and hardener you were supplied and we have sold over 1 metric ton since receiving that batch with no reported issues so far (it is our most popular product so we literally sell many tons per year). We have even used the same batch in some pigment experiments with no issues so I can be as confident as possible that the resin itself is unlikely to be a defective batch.  The way we decant and bottle the resins is such that it would be again extremely unlikely that some additional contaminant could get into it causing issues with just your specific bottles (or a small quantity).  That leads me to believe that the only reasonable explanation is a problem with the process or a simple error at some stage which has caused the issue.

From reading the description,  did you measure out each part by weight on scales or pour it directly into the bucket?  If the later, depending how much of the dregs you got out the bottle, you might have a slight error in mixing ratio, although  in this case I suspect that alone would not cause the extent of your issues. 5kg is a bit big to mix in one go in our opinion.  We tend to recommend mixing in batches of 3kg or smaller due to practicality issues.  It is physically quite hard to mix a 5kg batch.  Also simple things like using a relatively small mixing stick, round stick or something with a small surface area can all lead to making the mixing less accurate, even if you did mechanically stir it for the recommended time. For example our resin mixing stick we recommend has a large flat surface which is sized perfectly for ensuring the resin is suitably mixed at the recommended batch size.


Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Dawn
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Warren (Staff) - 6/27/2018 4:26:19 PM
Hi Dawn

Thanks for getting back to me.  Its a real shame you can't get enough of the mess up to be able to leave the pennies in place..  That is a lot of extra work and I can completely understand how soul destroying that must be.  I would seriously consider another attempt at cleaning the  resin off, even scraping it off as a gloop then using acetone to soften anything that's too hard to easily scrape off. Unless the resin has fully hardened, I would expect it is easier to get the resin off the floor than the bonded down pennies off the floor.    If you have to remove the pennies, you can use acetone to wipe down the coins, although only  use what you need rather than soaking the coins for a period of time.  Most solvents or acidic/caustic cleaning agents will strip off the  oxidization off the coins leaving them as new. - coke is a classic  example of this - a few pennies left in a glass of coke overnight will  be shiny and clean by the morning in most cases. 

Doing a bit more investigation, I have checked the batch of resin and hardener you were supplied and we have sold over 1 metric ton since receiving that batch with no reported issues so far (it is our most popular product so we literally sell many tons per year). We have even used the same batch in some pigment experiments with no issues so I can be as confident as possible that the resin itself is unlikely to be a defective batch.  The way we decant and bottle the resins is such that it would be again extremely unlikely that some additional contaminant could get into it causing issues with just your specific bottles (or a small quantity).  That leads me to believe that the only reasonable explanation is a problem with the process or a simple error at some stage which has caused the issue.

From reading the description,  did you measure out each part by weight on scales or pour it directly into the bucket?  If the later, depending how much of the dregs you got out the bottle, you might have a slight error in mixing ratio, although  in this case I suspect that alone would not cause the extent of your issues. 5kg is a bit big to mix in one go in our opinion.  We tend to recommend mixing in batches of 3kg or smaller due to practicality issues.  It is physically quite hard to mix a 5kg batch.  Also simple things like using a relatively small mixing stick, round stick or something with a small surface area can all lead to making the mixing less accurate, even if you did mechanically stir it for the recommended time. For example our resin mixing stick we recommend has a large flat surface which is sized perfectly for ensuring the resin is suitably mixed at the recommended batch size.

Hi thankyou for getting back to me, and we have now pulled up the floor and all is prepared to to give it a second go. 
Please can you advise on the following ( asked in my previous message) :-

but before we attempt to use this resin again please can you advise if there are any cleaning techniques we should avoid when cleaning the penny's, ie, using a solution of white vinegar and salt, or soaking with coke and then rinsing with warm tap water.

Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
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Hi,

There's no set solvents to avoid as such but  as mentioned above don't leave things immersed for a long time.  You can use acetone to wipe down the coins, although only use what you need rather than soaking the coins for a period of time. Most solvents or acidic/caustic cleaning agents will strip off the oxidization off the coins leaving them as new. - coke is a classic example of this - a few pennies left in a glass of coke overnight will be shiny and clean by the morning in most cases. wiping it for short periods to clean resin residue is unlikely to do this unless you are using something very strong like industrial acids or similar.


Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
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