learning resource for structural strength analysis


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nathane
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Hi folks,

I'm gradually preparing for a big project of building an expedition camper habitation unit.  Essentially a 4x2x2m laminated panel box.  It will be built using aramid/carbon/PU foam/carbon vacuum laminated epoxy matrix panels.

My question is: Please can you point me towards where can I find information that will enable me to calculate the fabric weight/thickness required to give appropriate load bearing capacity?

Commercially available polyester/glass equivalent panels are always quoted in terms of thickness (typically 3mm glass/60mm foam/2mm glass) and this isn't very helpful for me because I can't translate it into fabric weight for aramid and carbon (the foam which will remain 60mm for thermal insulation purposes).

I need to be able to specify layup spec for:
  1. Load carrying "beams" longitudinal will be essentially C section (like half RSJ), transverse will be I section (like RSJ).
  2. Panel skins for load distribution to the "beams"
If anyone can point me in the right direction to work out how many layers I will need to use of what weight that would be fantastic.  I do realise that manufacturing technique plays a significant role in the end strength and so there is not a single right answer but I'd like to have a directional understanding to get started.  

Many thanks
Nathan

oekmont
oekmont
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There are surely great books out the, which cover the basics. Search for "analysis fibre reinforced composites" or something similar. Sadly, I can't recommend one, because all the basic level literature I've read happend to be in German.
While those books will show you how to calculate your beams, you will most likely find no mathematical answer to the load distribution.
but I really do think you are making it unnecessarily complicated here. A camper box is no aerospace tec. And it sounds like some kind of expedition, which means that you don't know what exacly will happen to you box, and therefore you have to build it much stronger than the pure mathematics will tell you. Damage resistance against skin delamination caused by impacts will be a far greater issue than pure statics/dynamics.
With a 60mm sandwich core a incredible thin carbon skin would be sufficient to drive a car over it. Theoretically. Practically things look different.

nathane
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Sure, I definately don't want to overcomplicate things, but knowing whether I need 2 layers of 120g or 4 of 450g would be useful!
oekmont
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How should we be able to tell you that? You didn't tell us anything about the loads. And nothing about the actual design. C and I beams... where, and what for? Under the floor? In the ceiling? You are talking about load distribution, but does that mean. a man walking on the floor, or a motorcycle storage on top of the structure?
This basically comes down to the foam you are using. Something like airex will take quite some load with only a single layer on top, but insulation foam will need a few mm composites, to take any loads on the surface.
Just to be a camping box, without any loads on top, and no impact/scratch protection, a 60g biax cloth on both sides would be more than sufficient.

nathane
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oekmont - 4/27/2018 2:46:33 PM
How should we be able to tell you that? You didn't tell us anything about the loads. And nothing about the actual design. C and I beams... where, and what for? Under the floor? In the ceiling? You are talking about load distribution, but does that mean. a man walking on the floor, or a motorcycle storage on top of the structure?
This basically comes down to the foam you are using. Something like airex will take quite some load with only a single layer on top, but insulation foam will need a few mm composites, to take any loads on the surface.
Just to be a camping box, without any loads on top, and no impact/scratch protection, a 60g biax cloth on both sides would be more than sufficient.

Mate, I appreciate the help but chill a while.  I didn't ask for an answer to how I should do my layup, but a pointer towards resource to help me learn about the current state of materials stuff do the calculations myself.  

The load stuff will be fun to work out - the box will be around 2,500 to 3,000 kg total seeking to be broadly evenly distributed otherwise over the floorplan.  But when you factor things like 300l water tank, large batteries etc, there will be a few fairly uneven load points that need consideration.  It also needs to be designed so that it can be effectively supported safely at the corners by jacks, on the subframe on the vehicle, on a fork lift and even possibly from top load points with a crane like a container lift (although this probably adds more complexity than practical value!). 

As I get a bit more into the details of the design it may even be the sort of thing that doing a bit of FEA load distribution work could be useful if I can get my head around getting the most out of my CAD package.  

A few decades ago in the pre composites era I was an aero engineer and did my fair share of structural design work so, whilst I'm sure I'll be super rusty on the maths, I do have a bit of an idea about the load side of things, I'd just like a pointer towards a recommended accessible resource on the materials side to help me learn about that so I can find my own answers and start a practical testing regime knowing I'm close to the final answer if not exactly on it.  

In terms of foam, I'm not yet certain what I'll use - again this is new territory for me so I'm acquiring knowledge.  I had looked at Airex C70 so it's helpful you reference that as a material of note, thank you.  I will probably use mixed density in different parts of the build depending on the mechanical requirements, as you point out each panel has very different needs.  

Part of the fun of this project for me is that I think that most off the shelf solutions are far from optimised and just use a one product fits all principle - for obvious reasons for mass market builders.  Whilst I'm not looking to create a race car or satellite, shaving every excess gram, I love the idea of being able to think more critically about design and do a bit more optimisation.  

I thought that a community of folks interested in composites might have a recommendation of some learning resource that's all.  I often find internet communities helpful and welcoming for interested newcomers so thought I'd try it out.  

Steve Broad
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oekmont
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I really wasn't mad at all, sorry if it seemed like I was. I just got the intention (from your second post) that you were seeking for an easy answer from me/us. Sadly, most compositians don't really got an proper mechanical education and are more try and error when it comes to structural parts. Which usually also works quite well. So there are only a hand of people here, who might really recommend their favourite books. Me myself, as I said earlier, only read German introduction level literature, and only advanced and quite specialised papers in english.
if you got only a few, heavy loads, and need mounting points, as well as the possibility to get it with a forklift, I would highly recommend to build an aluminium or even steel frame, and just plank it with composite panels. This does not only make things much easier with calculations and construction, but is far more repairable in standard workshops. With a composite monocoque structure, with structual planning, that one forklift driver we all know could end your trip within a second, leaving you stranded possibly far away from any composite source to get things repaired. At least the structural bottom should be made from forklift proof materials in my opinion. And eyelets are really easy to integrate in metal structures, compared to composites structures. On a long journey safety and reliability always beat a few grams weight reduction.

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