Carbon Braided Sleeve


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wozza
wozza
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Hi, several questions in one here guys.

    Would your Braided Sleeve be suitable for making tubing to be used for a Bike Frame. The tubes I have in mind are "Box Section ish" rather than conventional Round Tube. As yet I am undecided whether to use a mandrel type construction or a Mould and Bladder process. I have Vacuum equipment also.

Any advice on Fabric Weight and number of layers would be greatly appreciated. In fact any advice even if it is to say forget the idea!!!!!
I know this is not an easy one to answer with regard to structural strength etc but just some general advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance. Warren (wozza)

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Paul (Staff)
Paul (Staff)
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Hi Wozza,

Would your Braided Sleeve be suitable for making tubing to be used for a Bike Frame. The tubes I have in mind are "Box Section ish" rather than conventional Round Tube. As yet I am undecided whether to use a mandrel type construction or a Mould and Bladder process. I have Vacuum equipment also.


Certainly braided sleeve is suitable for produce tubing such as that found on a bike frame, it is fairly common to see frames, seat-posts, bars etc.

If you were producing a round section I would defiantly suggest manufacturing them using a mandrel/shrink tape method as this is by-far the simplest construction method and is likely to yield the best results, however if you are producing a angular box section the shrink tape will concentrate pressure on the corners and leave the 'flat' sides resin rich, this type of section would really require an external mould and a bladder or core to apply the pressure. There would be some tolerance on the shapes that could be mandrel formed though... Oval sections or heavily rounded box profiles may form very well without excessive pressure variation.

Any advice on Fabric Weight and number of layers would be greatly appreciated. In fact any advice even if it is to say forget the idea!!!!!I know this is not an easy one to answer with regard to structural strength etc but just some general advice would be greatly appreciated.



Well I will keep it general! on a typical road frame here are the approximate wall thicknesses used;

Head Tube - 2mm (taper to 3mm around bearing journals)
Downtube - 1mm
Top tube/Seat tube - 1.5mm
Chainstays - 1.5mm
Seat Stays - 1.75mm
Bottom Bracket - 3mm

All joints tend to taper into a thicker wall. Now obviously material selection and orientation will have a huge bearing on performance here's an example 1.5mm frame tube layup;

200g Plain weave - 0-90 orientation (inline with the tube) 0.2mm thk
200g Unidirectional - 0deg (inline with the tube) 0.2mm thk
200g Unidirectional - +30deg (30deg off from inline) 0.2mm thk
200g Unidirectional - 0deg (inline with the tube) 0.2mm thk
200g Unidirectional - -30deg (30deg the other way)  0.2mm thk
200g Unidirectional - 0deg (inline with the tube) 0.2mm thk
200g Plain weave - 0-90 orientation (inline with the tube) 0.2mm thk

Some builders will choose only to use Unidirectional throughout some only woven cloths some a hybrid (like the above example) each has minor advantages/disadvantages, the main thing to consider when attempting frame building is to expect it to take a few prototypes before you have anything with performance comparable to commercially available frames. That is by no means discouragement because it is an incredibly rewarding process, we have many customers who are producing frame of exceptional standards, each one using a slightly different method that suits them!

Paul Statham
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical
wozza
wozza
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Hi Paul,
            Can I start by saying a big thank you for your very informative reply.
This will be a longer term project as I have just started my own composites business and will be concentrating on customer orders first.

The plan was to make a three piece split Mandrel (split along its length) in order to allow removal of the Mandrel after curing as the ends of the Tubes will be a smaller diameter than the middle or the tube section (hope that makes sense) 

Cover the Mandrel in release film, slide on the Braided Sleeve, wet lay and either rap in Release Tape or Vacuum Bag. Bond the Main Tubes to the Head Stock and Bottom Bracket and then make a split mould around those areas, lay up from those moulds and then bond the two halves around the joint area to add additional strength/support. I hope that makes sense?
Regards Wozza

Carbon Copies Ltd
wozza
wozza
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Hi Paul,
            Finally got around to starting the Mountain Bike Frame using the Carbon Braid I got off you. As the frame is for a Full Suspension Bike I have tried to go for a more "industrial" look. As this is not really a weight saving exercise, more of a "see if I can do it" project it is probably a bit over engineered. Excuse the Gussets and Rivets that's my Aircraft background coming through ha ha! I have attached some pics of the frame so far. Any comments appreciated especially if they are to say bad idea that ain't going to work!

Carbon Copies Ltd
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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Wow looks great! like the rivets.
How about stifness? Do you have some pictures of how you made the tubes and so on?
I'm a bit late but I guess you've already seen the videotutorials of "the project junkie1" on youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZltVTZkzIuY&feature=plcp can be a reference in some way?!

Good luck finishing it!

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




wozza
wozza
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Hi, thanks for the positive comments.

The whole project is a bit of a learning curve. I wish I could say that I had used some ultra technical ground breaking method of construction!!!!! The fact is the Tubes have been made around a simple former. The seat post for example was formed around a vacuum cleaner attachment hose (nice gradual taper) The former was wrapped in Release Tape, a length of 200grm 2/2 twill cloth (3 X tube diameter) cut and wet laid around the the former. Once that had become touch dry the Carbon Braid was slid over and Resin applied. Wrapped in Heat Shrink Tape and warmed with a heat gun to consolidate the layers.
The same process was used for all the Tubes. The box section Formers where made up of multiple layers of 18mm MDF, skimmed in body filler and hand finished to size.

Carbon Copies Ltd
brasco
brasco
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can you describe how you made and joined  the gusset? looks very well executed, the seam looks uniform and the part looks well formed and fitted to the tubes. very cool!


CarbonFiberCreations



wozza
wozza
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Hi, The seat support gusset is an off cut of the seat post tube cut and shaped by hand to fit then bonded in place with EC ET515. The Headstock gusset was wet laid over the tubes (after they had been covered in breaker tape) Once cured it can be flexed apart just enough to slide it off the frame. This was done so that the gusset is one piece rather than being split along the center line and fits the tubes perfectly. Hope that makes sense. Did you find the pic of the rear wing that does not exist ha ha.

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
brasco
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LOL yes i found the pic Tongue
nicely done !


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