moulds and curing


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coleio
coleio
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how are molds effected during the oven curing process? im asking because in any tutorial i see molds are left to cure in room temps when being made, but the product being made from the mold could be oven cured cured.

my reason for curing a part is because, like a bonnet, its close to heat and i heard that if a cf bonnet isnt oven cured, it could deform when fitted to the car so how does the mold not deform when its cooked with the cf part?

is there a benifit to curing molds in an oven?
wozza
wozza
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coleio (21/03/2014)
how are molds effected during the oven curing process? im asking because in any tutorial i see molds are left to cure in room temps when being made, but the product being made from the mold could be oven cured cured.

my reason for curing a part is because, like a bonnet, its close to heat and i heard that if a cf bonnet isnt oven cured, it could deform when fitted to the car so how does the mold not deform when its cooked with the cf part?

is there a benifit to curing molds in an oven?


Much depends on what the moulds are made from. With the Uni-Mould system which is good for 90 Degrees (higher actually) I always run new moulds through a couple of heat cycles before using them for the first time.

 Epoxies will soften, well loose some of their  stiffness shall we say if exposed to a temperature above what they were initially cured at, hence post curing. Ideally the part should be post cured to a temperature slightly higher than its final working temperature.
In reality most parts will post cure in use without major problems. So something like a bonnet would actually post cure itself over time.
Just don't leave the car parked in the sun all day fresh from the mould.Smile
To get an idea lay up some flat sheet and let it cure at room temperature, say 20 degrees. Demould it and then put it on a radiator (with the heating onSmile ) in the house for a few hours and see how it becomes more flexible.

Warren

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
coleio
coleio
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cool. im hoping to go with resoltech resins as they appear to offer the highest temps (from a 2min google search Tongue)
wozza
wozza
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coleio (21/03/2014)
cool. im hoping to go with resoltech resins as they appear to offer the highest temps (from a 2min google search Tongue)



 I assume from that and your other posts you are going pre-preg. You must have some wealthy customers if they can afford a pre-preg bonnet. w00t

Carbon Copies Ltd
Edited 11 Years Ago by wozza
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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Uni-mould systems are mostly made to be postcured properly with very less deformation. 
I always postcure my moulds with the original part still in it, just to make sure that your mould will deform as little as possible.

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




ChrisR
ChrisR
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As said already, if you wnt to post cure a part at 120deg then you need a mould that can withstand that temp i.e. been post cured so the mould Tg is higher than the part post cure temp.

Before you go spunking all that money on high to very high temp resins for the mould and part, get a temp guage under the bonnet in a few places and drive around, leave the car ticking over with the bonnet closed etc and actually measure the temperatures the part will be subjected to. I think you will be suprised how low they are Wink unless you have the exhaust or turbo running 2mm from the bonnet I doubt you'll see anything over 70odd degrees. Polyester resins have been used in kit cars for years as bonnets, ducting etc in the engine bay and they don't normally have a problem. Sometimes you can get a faint distorsion in the pannel where the ribs are but thats polyester with CSM typically.

Even if you do see higher than that good heat management within the engine bay should reduce it siginficantly.
coleio
coleio
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wozza (21/03/2014)
coleio (21/03/2014)
cool. im hoping to go with resoltech resins as they appear to offer the highest temps (from a 2min google search Tongue)



 I assume from that and your other posts you are going pre-preg. You must have some wealthy customers if they can afford a pre-preg bonnet. w00t


no, ive decided against pre-preg for the time being anyway Sad
coleio
coleio
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ChrisR (21/03/2014)
As said already, if you wnt to post cure a part at 120deg then you need a mould that can withstand that temp i.e. been post cured so the mould Tg is higher than the part post cure temp.

Before you go spunking all that money on high to very high temp resins for the mould and part, get a temp guage under the bonnet in a few places and drive around, leave the car ticking over with the bonnet closed etc and actually measure the temperatures the part will be subjected to. I think you will be suprised how low they are Wink unless you have the exhaust or turbo running 2mm from the bonnet I doubt you'll see anything over 70odd degrees. Polyester resins have been used in kit cars for years as bonnets, ducting etc in the engine bay and they don't normally have a problem. Sometimes you can get a faint distorsion in the pannel where the ribs are but thats polyester with CSM typically.

Even if you do see higher than that good heat management within the engine bay should reduce it siginficantly.


i get where your coming from, its just that if im investing 2-3k in a first order, why not get the highest temp possible?

ChrisR (21/03/2014)
unless you have the exhaust or turbo running 2mm from the bonnet 


quite possible Smile hahaha ok maybe not quite possible. lets say 10pct possible
ChrisR
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it's economy of scale and level of risk.

Why spend 10-15% more on resin that HAS to be cured at a higher temp to reach certain properties, then you have to run the oven hotter and longer than a lower temp resin so you may have a 100deg Tg resin cured for 8hrs at 90 with steps to reach that temp so you're looking at 12-14hr cure time + cool down rather than a higher temp that may need 50deg for 3hrs, 90deg for 4hrs, 120deg (or higher) for 4hrs etc so you're adding another 3-4hrs to the cure time with an extra 4+hrs electric. If you're under time pressure then you loose that time for the next part

The finished product will be more difficult to work, the resin will be harder, more tool wear, more chance of burn out, higher wear on the oven etc... the higher temperature the cure, the more controlled the ramp rate needs to be to prevent uncontrolled exotherm and increased risk of fire and destroying the part, mould and oven. Not to mention higher temperature consumables i.e. bagging tape, vac bag, release film and depending on the release agent, a more expensive and specialised release agent. If you intend to infuse then you won't be able to use PVC or even PTFE infusion hose. You may even have to infuse and cure at a lower temp then remove the low temp elements, re-bag and post cure to the final temp so again adding more cost and time to each project.

That's why you need to know the operating temp of the part.
coleio
coleio
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going with 360composites resoltech resins. ds-1800 epoxy resin and their ds7090 gelcoat. great pricing, great support, no question left unanswered. #recommend Wink

anyone have any experience with these products or the company themselves?
Edited 11 Years Ago by coleio
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