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Hanaldo
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+xI disagree. His layup is extremely heavy for a track car. The core is not lightweight, it's very heavy for a core material. It will not compress under vacuum at all - autoclave pressure is a different story of course. I make race car panels for a living, it's virtually all I do. Any car with panels thicker than 2mm thick is at the back of the pack, that's for sure. All of my race car panels are 1 layer of 240g carbon and 1 layer of 450g carbon and that's it. Hell, some of them are just 2 layers of 240g. Most of them last forever, some of them need to be replaced every now and then - that's mostly splitters that wear through from hitting curbs. Occasionally might get a hole in a side skirt or a crack in a front bumper, but there would be hundreds of laps in between. I certainly don't use Kevlar in any panel except perhaps the bottom of splitters or undertrays, and thats just to give them a bit of abrasion resistance to get a few extra races of out of them. Kevlar doesnt add 'give'. It holds the panel together when it fails. Realistically, it makes the panel weaker for a given weight, as it takes less energy to break than if that same panel were solid carbon. It is required by regulations in certain race categories for safety, but other than that it is a total waste of time in most amateur level race cars. Thing is, if you have the moulds then making a replacement panel is cheap when they are lightweight. Especially if you are laying them up yourself and not paying for any labour. Non-structural race car panels should be as flimsy as they can be without the wind speeds punching a hole in them. For carbon panels, that means paper thin. Hanaldo, what about front splitter that need stand huge downforce? how did you construct them? Bit of a complex question really, and a lot depends on the budget and the application. Can be anything from a simple solid foam core (on the heavier side of things) to a hollow construction with spars (the lightest method). Basic principle is that the skins take the torsional loads (twisting), and your internal support structure takes the lateral loads. There are some torsional forces on a front splitter, so your skins need to be relatively thick (At least 1.5mm), but you are looking at a lot of bending forces as well, so if you are not using spars then the splitter itself needs to be quite thick to be stiff enough. Spars can make the design much much stiffer, so are lighter and cab cut down on total thickness. A proper splitter needs to be mounted properly as well, meaning directly to the chassis. So you also have to consider how you achieve that, and how you transfer the loads from the splitter to the chassis. This is a splitter that I made for a local time attack car, total weight is 4.8kg. Producing 250kg of downforce at 200km/h in free air. 
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syahnoo84
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7,
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+xI disagree. His layup is extremely heavy for a track car. The core is not lightweight, it's very heavy for a core material. It will not compress under vacuum at all - autoclave pressure is a different story of course. I make race car panels for a living, it's virtually all I do. Any car with panels thicker than 2mm thick is at the back of the pack, that's for sure. All of my race car panels are 1 layer of 240g carbon and 1 layer of 450g carbon and that's it. Hell, some of them are just 2 layers of 240g. Most of them last forever, some of them need to be replaced every now and then - that's mostly splitters that wear through from hitting curbs. Occasionally might get a hole in a side skirt or a crack in a front bumper, but there would be hundreds of laps in between. I certainly don't use Kevlar in any panel except perhaps the bottom of splitters or undertrays, and thats just to give them a bit of abrasion resistance to get a few extra races of out of them. Kevlar doesnt add 'give'. It holds the panel together when it fails. Realistically, it makes the panel weaker for a given weight, as it takes less energy to break than if that same panel were solid carbon. It is required by regulations in certain race categories for safety, but other than that it is a total waste of time in most amateur level race cars. Thing is, if you have the moulds then making a replacement panel is cheap when they are lightweight. Especially if you are laying them up yourself and not paying for any labour. Non-structural race car panels should be as flimsy as they can be without the wind speeds punching a hole in them. For carbon panels, that means paper thin. Hanaldo, what about front splitter that need stand huge downforce? how did you construct them?
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Hanaldo
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 28K
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I disagree. His layup is extremely heavy for a track car. The core is not lightweight, it's very heavy for a core material. It will not compress under vacuum at all - autoclave pressure is a different story of course.
I make race car panels for a living, it's virtually all I do. Any car with panels thicker than 2mm thick is at the back of the pack, that's for sure. All of my race car panels are 1 layer of 240g carbon and 1 layer of 450g carbon and that's it. Hell, some of them are just 2 layers of 240g. Most of them last forever, some of them need to be replaced every now and then - that's mostly splitters that wear through from hitting curbs. Occasionally might get a hole in a side skirt or a crack in a front bumper, but there would be hundreds of laps in between.
I certainly don't use Kevlar in any panel except perhaps the bottom of splitters or undertrays, and thats just to give them a bit of abrasion resistance to get a few extra races of out of them. Kevlar doesnt add 'give'. It holds the panel together when it fails. Realistically, it makes the panel weaker for a given weight, as it takes less energy to break than if that same panel were solid carbon. It is required by regulations in certain race categories for safety, but other than that it is a total waste of time in most amateur level race cars.
Thing is, if you have the moulds then making a replacement panel is cheap when they are lightweight. Especially if you are laying them up yourself and not paying for any labour. Non-structural race car panels should be as flimsy as they can be without the wind speeds punching a hole in them. For carbon panels, that means paper thin.
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Nate Dawg
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Group: Forum Members
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In my opinion (I'm responsible for the carbon repairs on LMP2 & LMP3 racecars) your lay-up is way to lightweight and won't last 5 mins out on track (it's not uncommon to see holes punched straight through 1-2mm thick monolithic carbon parts), in fact it will probably even get damaged by the mechanics before it even goes out on track too! As a result its likely trackside repairs will be carried out after every session and the weight of these wet up jobs will soon add up, not to mention the difficultly of trying to piece back together such thin parts (unless of course you intend taking moulds with you to the track!)
However if you have a the budget to treat the panels as consumable it's you may just get away with it, but expect to go through several over the course of a weekend even without and contact with other cars (if you have a pro driver in the car too, don't expect them to look after it any more just because you are running super light panels).
The core you have spec'ed is also very lightweight and in my experience of using it even under the low pressure you get with normal vac bagging it will compress down quite a lot and as soon as you but it in a clave and increase the pressure further it will only compress more.
Most racecar panels also have kevlar in the layup as this provides a bit more 'give' to them panels and stops them from shattering like pure carbon is prone too.
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Dezer
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 74,
Visits: 1.8K
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+x+xHello Friends, I'm with a project for a competition car model GT3 homologated FIA, my idea is an extremely light and resistant parts. I wanted to consult with you that you have more experience if my idea is enough. The sandwich would be in the following configuration: 1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave) Core Lantor Soric XF 3 mm 1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave) The parts are as follows: - Front Bumper - Side Skirts - Front Fenders Thanks! Hello Dezer! Any update on gt3 car? subtle changes in the body, we have not yet started production. As I have not had a response regarding the panels, I hope it works well in this configuration. Results post here later.
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Furkan Yahsi
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2,
Visits: 13
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+xHello Friends, I'm with a project for a competition car model GT3 homologated FIA, my idea is an extremely light and resistant parts. I wanted to consult with you that you have more experience if my idea is enough. The sandwich would be in the following configuration: 1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave) Core Lantor Soric XF 3 mm 1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave) The parts are as follows: - Front Bumper - Side Skirts - Front Fenders Thanks! Hello Dezer! Any update on gt3 car?
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Dezer
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 74,
Visits: 1.8K
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Hello Friends,
I'm with a project for a competition car model GT3 homologated FIA, my idea is an extremely light and resistant parts.
I wanted to consult with you that you have more experience if my idea is enough.
The sandwich would be in the following configuration:
1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave)
Core Lantor Soric XF 3 mm
1 layer of carbon fiber 200 gsm (Twill weave)
The parts are as follows:
- Front Bumper
- Side Skirts
- Front Fenders
Thanks!
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