Legal Issues


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Ballistical
Ballistical
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Hi all,

This isn't strictly about composite products but I thought someone on here might be able to help me.

I was planning to buy the composite moulding kit and try using existing OE car/bike components to create moulds. I was then planning to begin selling the moulded carbon fibre parts to customers as an after market option. However, a friend recently asked me about the legal issues with doing this. Since I am effectively using someone else's design to create my mould I would be replicating parts exactly. Would this conflict with any copyright on the original part? 

Also does anyone know if any carbon fibre components to be mounted on vehicles (particularly exterior) need to undergo any sort of testing in order to be legal for road use? I presumed that as long as they were not conflicting with vehicle characteristics such as steering angles, suspension travel, lighting angles etc. that all would be good but I'm not one hundred percent. I am talking about items such as motorbike fairing, car badges, grilles, spoilers etc.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers.

Alex
japcarmaniac
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i think the part would have to be slightly different. this could be a very small difference like a groove or bump added and then sell it as a replacement part and not a direct copy of it. but this all depends on whether the part is patent or copyright protected in the first place. 


Warren
Warren
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what country are you in??

Generally in the UK you will get away with copying steel panels no problem.  By the time youve fettled the mould, trimmed it etc the part will only be "similar" in shape to the OEM part.

Ive never heard of anyone getting done for copyright on copying steel panels in carbon. Hell, even pattern steel panel manufacturers get away with it with only very slight differences in the panel pressing on edges, fixings etc.

However if you bought a competitors part then took a mould from it you would be on dodgy grounds potentially if you made no changes whatsoever.

In terms of liability, the phrase you need to learn and use is "for off road use only". Be very clear to your customers you are NOT selling them a crash tested homologated for road use part.  If they dont like it, then tough.  And to be fair, the kind of customer who is interested in liability against you before theyve even bought anything isnt worth the hassle.

Of course that doesnt mean you can get away with shoddy work.   You will find the same "for off road use" phrase used in the vast majority of the modified car parts scene.
Ballistical
Ballistical
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Thanks for the responses!

Warren, I am based in the UK, where copyright is taken pretty seriously. However, as you and Japcarmaniac said, as long as the part is not exactly the same as the original then it should not cause any problems. 

In terms of selling for "off road use", does this mean that any aftermarket exterior trim component would have to undergo crash testing etc. if it would to be sold for "road use". For example, this carbon fibre focus bonnet trim:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Focus-RS-mk2-Carbon-Fibre-Replacment-Bonnet-Trim-/270819296747?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3f0e1685eb#ht_500wt_969

I am interested to see at what point a part would need to be involved in testing since I would doubt very much that a simple replacement badge or wiper cover would be significant enough to require any homologation. However a carbon fibre front grille or bumper blade which is far stronger than the original plastic part could affect pedestrian impacts and therefore could require significant testing for road use. 

Thanks again.
Joe
Joe
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Ballistical (27/02/2012)

In terms of selling for "off road use", does this mean that any aftermarket exterior trim component would have to undergo crash testing etc. if it would to be sold for "road use".
.
 

Hi,  

By "For off road use" you could understand "you are not supposed to use it on the road", in the way that the part did not come with the vehicle when it left the factory. Responsibility of the buyer to mount it on a car or not.   

 



 


    A $1000 electronic device will always protect a 10 cents fuse
Edited 13 Years Ago by Joe
Warren
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If you wanted to claim your part was safe for road use then you would need to have some form of testing to prove that.

Technically you would still be in breach of homologation for that vehicle.  Its not so bad in the UK as the law is grey with VOSA being unable to do much unless it can prove a part is unsafe.... and the MoT not encompassing most modified parts.

However in europe it is much more strict with modifications banned full stop in many countries and some requiring full homolagation and testing -  eg german TUV standard.

Your best bet is the "not for road use" line to protect yourself.

The last thing you want is some pedestrian suing you for millions because some chimp run him over with a carbon bonnet and the bonnet splintered causing more injuries.
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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I'm planning to make a Goalie helmet (Field hockey goal keeper helmet) 

I will use an OBO (brand of the helmet) keeper helmet as my mould and reproduce it with Carbon Fiber...

This is just to make some of them and not as commercial manufacturing to make thousands of them... 

Will I get in any trouble?

Kind regards, Matthieu Libeert

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




Warren
Warren
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from a copyright point of view, as long as its not identical you will get away with it.

From a safety point of view are you having the helmet tested???

If no formal testing then Id be very wary about selling it as anything other than a "display" piece.

You sell a helmet and claim it offers protection, then you will be in for a world of hurt if someone gets thier head bashed in then sues you.
Matthieu Libeert
Matthieu Libeert
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hehe yeah your right!

I Have some contacts with a testlab so I hope in best case to be able to test it Wink

Matthieu Libeert
Founder MAT2 Composites X Sports
website:
www.mat2composites.com




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