F1 Monocoque fabrication questions


Author
Message
rob 2fast4u
r
Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2, Visits: 19
Good day,  I am in the planning stages of constructing a monocoque for a F1 dublicate utilizing a 1000cc motorcycle engine (gsxr/zx,cbr...) it will be producing about 3-500hp being built and turbocharged.  I am working out the construction stages of building the monocoque and I will first be building a plug using pink panther insulating foam afterwards will be a 3 part split mold covering from the front to the back all the way up the middle then the upper piece will have two splits along the center line. I plan on using 8 layers of carbon with nomex 1/2" core sandwiched between them also it will have kevlar sandwiched between the two layers of carbon on either side of the core ex: C/C/K/C/C/Nomex/C/C/K/C/C.  I was planing to vacuum infuse the parts separately and will have to be done in stages with the first cloth layers being done then bonding the nomex core with wet layup after that finishing it with the rest as you can't infuse resin with a honeycomb cores.  My problem is how would the 3 section be finally bonded together and strengthen as it would need an overlap or additional layers where the bond would be but being a monocoque it would be difficult to reinforce it properly by the frontal area. 
Replies
Warren (Staff)
Warren (Staff)
Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)Supreme Being (22K reputation)
Group: Administrators
Posts: 2.5K, Visits: 8.5K
Honeycombs are often bonded together with an adhesive film under vacuum and heat. Generally such a tub would be almost all pre-preg and done in multiple shots to get the honeycomb core.   

In theory you could do infused inner and outer skins then bond it all together. Your parts would all need to be postcured to a temperature they can survive the film curing cycle.

Alternatively you would have to manually apply adhesive and build it in stages -  perhaps with a vacuum bag to hold things in place.

It would be far easier to do an infused foam cored layup if you can make the design strong enough.

I imagine it would be a nightmare to do and would be a lot of effort.  YOu would end up bonding the tub together so you would need properly designed joggle joints and overlaps in the correct places.  Then you need to consider hard point inserts, additional bulkheads etc etc etc all as part of the original design.  Often the assembly would need to be done in a set order to make sure you get all the items in place at the right place and time in the process.

The other factors to consider are safety and race regulation.  If you are racing this, often there are a lot of series and MSUK regulations over composite structures and safety.  You are likely to need rear and possibly front roll hoops in the specified steel grades and design.  Plus often they specify limits on construction materials and/or additional layers such as an aramid/para-aramid type fibre for impact and anti-penetration purposes.  Plus of course a front and probably rear crash structure which will have to meet its own set standards for energy absorption.

If its track day only, you still need to make it safe for you and others around you but that is more or less down to your own concience in most countries as there is often less or no regulation on "construction" of cars for track days as long as it passes very basic scruntineering.    Although be aware many track day operators do not allow open wheeled cars except on specific open wheel car days or on "test days".  



Oh,  there's a few current and former F1 composites experts on this forum who can probably go into hours worth of extra detail on this subject should it be needed. 



Warren Penalver
Easy Composites / Carbon Mods - Technical Support Assistant
Edited 5 Years Ago by Warren (Staff)
rob 2fast4u
r
Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)Junior Member (18 reputation)
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2, Visits: 19
Warren (Staff) - 7/1/2020 3:29:03 PM
Honeycombs are often bonded together with an adhesive film under vacuum and heat. Generally such a tub would be almost all pre-preg and done in multiple shots to get the honeycomb core.   

In theory you could do infused inner and outer skins then bond it all together. Your parts would all need to be postcured to a temperature they can survive the film curing cycle.

Alternatively you would have to manually apply adhesive and build it in stages -  perhaps with a vacuum bag to hold things in place.

It would be far easier to do an infused foam cored layup if you can make the design strong enough.

I imagine it would be a nightmare to do and would be a lot of effort.  YOu would end up bonding the tub together so you would need properly designed joggle joints and overlaps in the correct places.  Then you need to consider hard point inserts, additional bulkheads etc etc etc all as part of the original design.  Often the assembly would need to be done in a set order to make sure you get all the items in place at the right place and time in the process.

The other factors to consider are safety and race regulation.  If you are racing this, often there are a lot of series and MSUK regulations over composite structures and safety.  You are likely to need rear and possibly front roll hoops in the specified steel grades and design.  Plus often they specify limits on construction materials and/or additional layers such as an aramid/para-aramid type fibre for impact and anti-penetration purposes.  Plus of course a front and probably rear crash structure which will have to meet its own set standards for energy absorption.

If its track day only, you still need to make it safe for you and others around you but that is more or less down to your own concience in most countries as there is often less or no regulation on "construction" of cars for track days as long as it passes very basic scruntineering.    Although be aware many track day operators do not allow open wheeled cars except on specific open wheel car days or on "test days".  



Oh,  there's a few current and former F1 composites experts on this forum who can probably go into hours worth of extra detail on this subject should it be needed. 


Thank you warren, well put I tried to give details on the plan but I am no expert on the field as you can probably tell haha. The purpose of the car would be for track days and also the build itself would be an experience in itself.  I do want to make it safe for myself and for others I am planning on using aramid sandwich'd between carbon layers on each side of the core.  I am thinking to place the first layup into the mold (carbon,carbon, aramid, carbon carbon) then infusing it afterward once cured I wil be bonding the core to the layups with an aditional layer of carbon ontop of the core with an 1" overhang this will be a wet layup and then a slight vacuum applied to make the core and the layer of carbon take shape of the part. This should seal the core into place and the rest of the layers can then be infused like the first stage.  I am leaning towards a
"
tung and grove" joint to join the peices together and there will be no core material in this section it will all be built up with carbon. 

GO

Merge Selected

Merge into selected topic...



Merge into merge target...



Merge into a specific topic ID...





Similar Topics

Reading This Topic

Explore
Messages
Mentions
Search