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daihashi
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Just curious if anyone has used diolen isntead of carbon fiber for body panels? The panels would be wrapped or painted, so the cosmetic appearance is not very important. I do know that diolen has very good impact and abrasion resistance/strength... but the stiffness is not as good as Carbon or kevlar. The goal is to reduce weight, and also reduce cost (drastically in comparison to CF). I was thinking diolen could be used, and if stiffness was an issue then carbon fiber strips could be used as reinforcement. Something like soric would be used as the core... just because it makes bagging a lot easier IMO. Alternatively Carbon Fiber could be used as the skin, but again... reducing cost is important and I would prefer to not go this route unless absolutely needed. I've not worked much with Diolen, but I do know it's pretty strong against impact. Last option would be to use fiberglass to provide stiffness, but I'm not certain how this may affect the weight vs CF skin with Diolen... or even true CF build. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
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neilb
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i was planning to use diolen for a bumper as i'm not far from starting that mould, it does have good impact strength but i'm now thinking of using black fg mainly cause of trimming the part after de-moulding. diolen has a high elongation break strength where as fg, cf is fairly low. (basically you get a nice clean cut edge using fg ,cf)
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daihashi
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neilb (09/06/2012)
i was planning to use diolen for a bumper as i'm not far from starting that mould, it does have good impact strength but i'm now thinking of using black fg mainly cause of trimming the part after de-moulding. diolen has a high elongation break strength where as fg, cf is fairly low. (basically you get a nice clean cut edge using fg ,cf)I thought that was if you just did a regular wet lay, but if you infused that you could sand it fairly smooth. If I'm going to vinyl wrap the parts would it be as relevant since the edges would be covered with another surface material anyway? I can always try a small test piece first, like a piece of interior trim, just so I can get an idea of what it will look like. I was curious about how stiff the panels would be with diolen, but I suppose if I make the trim piece then this would give me an idea of that as well. Regarding black FG, wouldn't that be a sensitive to rocks and other debris on the road? I've never worked with black fg, but assume it's just regular fg mat which has been dyed? If so maybe consider backing it with diolen to give it some additional strength? If you have any insight on if the frayed/fluffy ends on diolen could simply be covered by a vinyl wrap I would greatly appreciate it. Going over those ends with same thin CF tape is also something I would consider; especially since the panel would be wrapped and shouldn't be noticable. Thank you for your response. I've done plenty of fg work, some CF work... and am now reaching out to forums (surprisingly there aren't many for Fiberglass/CF) now that I have a very large project ahead of me. It's surprisingly hard to get feedback from anyone. -Rich
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neilb
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hi rich,
i would say that panel stiffness would be mainly down to the resin, impact resistance would be down to the fabric used, fg, carbon can break very easily on impact. diolen , kevlar have a high elongation so they stretch to a breaking point.
i guess to avoid the frayed ends you could lay up the fabric keeping just short of the edges so you get a nice clean cut edge on trimming up.
personally i'm not too worried about stones and road debris, i've been a panel beater now for just over 20 years, worked on many cars with fg bumpers.
what's the project?
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daihashi
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Full fiber glass body (fenders, quarter panels, inner wheel arches, hood, front/rear bumpers, roof, trunk, and door skins... but not the doors themselves) for my BMW project. It is an E28 with M30 motor that I've build with forced induction. I've already got light weight rotating parts (knife edged crank, crank pulley, lightweight brake system, lightenend flywheel.. etc etc). Looking to shave off static weight now at this time but not wanting to spend a fortune on carbon fiber fabric. I'll try some interior trim pieces first and see how the edges look.
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neilb
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to be honest having spent plenty of time around turbo motors and people that build them i would say just turn up the boost! i can see where you are coming from though regards to making the shell as light as possible. i would say just stick to the bolt on parts if your going down this route, although i do have a friend with a 2.2 5 cyl audi 80 pretty much std with over 750hp on the road now.
taking into account the cost of the moulds then the parts, i would say that money could be better spent on mapping the engine to get the most out of it, but if you really want to do this, hats off to you its a big project, i personally would love to see the progress and i'm sure others would too
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daihashi
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neilb (11/06/2012)
to be honest having spent plenty of time around turbo motors and people that build them i would say just turn up the boost! i can see where you are coming from though regards to making the shell as light as possible. i would say just stick to the bolt on parts if your going down this route, although i do have a friend with a 2.2 5 cyl audi 80 pretty much std with over 750hp on the road now.
taking into account the cost of the moulds then the parts, i would say that money could be better spent on mapping the engine to get the most out of it, but if you really want to do this, hats off to you its a big project, i personally would love to see the progress and i'm sure others would tooI'm already past all that, I have the motor dialed in exactly where I want it and running on a MegaSquirt and Spark. Most of the parts were custom made in my garage as there is not a large aftermarket following for a car of this age. In addition to being able to move the car faster, weight reduction improves handling and braking. Since this car was made in 1985, it's about as heavy as a tank... roughly 3500lbs. I've already reduced much of the rotating weight and am now ready to move onto reducing static weight. I'm hoping to get the car down to about 2600lbs, or at least as close as I can get. I don't want to go full tube frame, so this is a happy medium. I will however be building a new k-member to reduce weight and further improve handling. 
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FLD
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Diolen would be fine for this. The stiffness would come from the panel thickness so a core layer would sort your rigidity. Fluffy edges can be sanded from what I remember. Its been a while since I did anything with diolen (canoes!).
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