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Exocet
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Hi a beginner question. I would like to make two carbon panels approx 2mtrs long by 0.5mtr wide. The panels need to be flat and have a very good gloss and pin hole free finish. I was intending to use 4 layers of 2/2 200g of carbon fibre and purchase a resin infusion starter kit from EC. For my mould I have an old glass shower door which I was planned to use. I choice this as its flat, and hopefully will give a good finish. Is this likely to work? what problems do i need to look out for? and what will the finish be like on shower door side of the panel and the peel ply side of the panel. Comments/ advice greatly appreciated, this is a big step for me so your pointers and help will be most valued. Thanks in advance. john
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Dravis
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Making flat CF sheet on a large sheet of hardened glass (like your shower door) is a very good way of doing it.. works brilliantly.. You may want to support it with a wooden (plywood) frame to make sure that you do not break the glass. If you have the skills, then you can build a heated setup, by using a hot air blower and channel it under the glass, that will speed up the hardening and also make post-curing at high temperature possible. Make sure that you use a good release agent on the glass, Epoxy sticks VERY WELL to a dry clean glass surface, it must be treated with something like EC "Easy-lease" You can polish the easy-lease on the glass to a mirror-finish, making the glass-side of your sheet a mirror finish as well ...  I make double-sided "mirror finish" sheet, by simply taking off the peel-ply on the top side of a sheet made on the glass, coating it with laminating resin and turning it over on the glass sheet. but remember to de-gas the resin first, and remember to clean the glass, and apply and polish a new coat of easy-lease. You can Vac-bag the sheet again, but I normally just use a second sheet of glass and put some weight on top. Good luck!
"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW! The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind... 103% of all people do not understand statistics... Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
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Exocet
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Dravis (18/09/2014)
Making flat CF sheet on a large sheet of hardened glass (like your shower door) is a very good way of doing it.. works brilliantly.. You may want to support it with a wooden (plywood) frame to make sure that you do not break the glass. If you have the skills, then you can build a heated setup, by using a hot air blower and channel it under the glass, that will speed up the hardening and also make post-curing at high temperature possible. Make sure that you use a good release agent on the glass, Epoxy sticks VERY WELL to a dry clean glass surface, it must be treated with something like EC "Easy-lease" You can polish the easy-lease on the glass to a mirror-finish, making the glass-side of your sheet a mirror finish as well ... I make double-sided "mirror finish" sheet, by simply taking off the peel-ply on the top side of a sheet made on the glass, coating it with laminating resin and turning it over on the glass sheet. but remember to de-gas the resin first, and remember to clean the glass, and apply and polish a new coat of easy-lease. You can Vac-bag the sheet again, but I normally just use a second sheet of glass and put some weight on top. Good luck! Dravis, thank you very much for your reply. So it looks like my plan will work. I'm thinking of buying the EC Resin infusion starter kit as it looks to be everything I need. Does any ne have an advice on this kit, extras I might need. It's £300 +vat so not a cheap investment but I don't think I have an other options. Has anyone got one of these kits? if so an words of advice or additional kit I need.
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Exocet
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Just thinking through trying to heat cure my flat panels. That are approx 2mtrs x 0.5mtrs in side and will go on the side of car. So so big for any oven I have access too. Has anyone use Infra Red lamps to cure their Carbon Fibre? can this be done successfully. I was think of the 240v bathroom ones (rather that a patio heater type) that use to be available and mounting say 4 of these in a line above the panel?
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Dravis
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I have measured the temperature distribution and levels from infrared lamps (I can get them very cheaply from local agriculture suppliers) I borrowed a couple from the farm next door, just to test. They do not give a very uniform /even temperature, nor a very high one.. I would not recommend them.. The "red-hot stick type" bathroom heaters are very difficult to control, same issue, very uneven temperature, and a risk of "hot spots" with far too high temps. I have made a setup where I channel hot air under the glass-table from a fan-heater, and control it form a thermostat at the air outlet .. This gives a very even distribution of heat on the glass plate, onle a few (2 -5 deg. ) drop from one end to the other, and I can control the temp within 10 deg. I am able to run the temperature on the glass surface up to 120 deg. C. before it becomes to unevenly distributed.. (I tested this with an infrared thermometer) Doing it on the glass table also keeps the shape of the laminate completely intact, no distortion...
"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW! The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind... 103% of all people do not understand statistics... Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
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Exocet
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Dravis, Been thinking about your suggestion with the fan heater, bit concerned on the fire risk so was thinking that I could made a simple wooden frame to support the glass and line it with foil backed plaster board for heat resistance and insulation. I've done a quick drawing. Was thinking of making the space underneath the glass about 200mm. What do you think? Any further suggestions?
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brainfart
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You seem to overanalyse this.
If air goes in, air needs to go out. Can't hurt to heat both sides of the laminate. I don't know what kind of temperatures you want to achieve, a cardboard box might be all you need.
And finally, infusion is overrated. It's perfectly ok to do this as some kind of experiment, or use it to learn infusion, but great results can be achieved simply by doing wet layup and applying some pressure. Results in perfect surface quality on BOTH sides.
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Exocet
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brainfart (21/09/2014)
You seem to overanalyse this.
If air goes in, air needs to go out. Can't hurt to heat both sides of the laminate. I don't know what kind of temperatures you want to achieve, a cardboard box might be all you need.
And finally, infusion is overrated. It's perfectly ok to do this as some kind of experiment, or use it to learn infusion, but great results can be achieved simply by doing wet layup and applying some pressure. Results in perfect surface quality on BOTH sides.Hi, regarding wet lay that's how I start making panels and have got some reasonable results. The problem I have found is that i get fish eyes and breaches in the gel coat. I've used the GC50 Epoxy compatible polyester gelcoat as recommended by EC. I don't have any spray equipment so have to apply by brush. This is when I get fish eyes and streaking in the gel coat. The other problem is as i'm bushing the gel coat the thickness varies and you can see this on the first layer of carbon. I've only done 50cm x 50cm panels so far and this has been a problem so i'm reluctant to move on to bigger panels. If someone can suggest a way of avoiding the fish eyes in the gel coat than im happy not spending money on a vacuum system.
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davro
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My ghetto heated glass table. I have the fan heater (thermostatically controlled) inside the box so it recurculates the hot air keeping the glass surface at around 70c - 80c depending how many blankets I cover it with during the curing process. Have produced many, many sheets using this ghetto table, also acts as a way to cure larger moulds on top of the table, and curing smaller moulds inside like an oven, very adaptable! 
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Dravis
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"davro" has the setup very nicely done ... As for the risk of fire, it is actually very difficult to ignite wood surfaces with a fan heater ... You may be unlucky and char the wood surface and get a lot of smoke and smell, but it is unlikely to catch fire. If you are working with epoxy There's really no need to use plasterboard or foil or the like, you will not need much more than 80 deg. C. Large areas of GC50 really needs to be sprayed ... Hand layup with vacuum bagging works just as well as infusion for flat sheets ..
"Sapere Aude"... Dare to KNOW! The written word is the only truly efficient vehicle for transmitting a complex concept from mind to mind... 103% of all people do not understand statistics... Do not adjust our mind, theres a fault in reality :-)
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