Carbon I beam for lap steel guitar


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Neiluj
Neiluj
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Hi everyone, 

I would like to build a carbon I beam (IPN). Around 1 meter long, 12 cm for the center part and 8 cm for the parallel parts. 
I would need it to be quite stiff and with a thickness around 3mm at least. 

Does anyone has any idea of how to do this ? 

To be honest my project is to build a lap steel guitar, similar to this one (already made by myself, into aluminum) 

http://nuitnuitnuit.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mg_8932-web.jpg


http://nuitnuitnuit.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mg_8936-web.jpg




My questions are :
Will I find a rather easy way of making a I beam, or is it more simple to just do 2 U beams that I glue together ? 
What would be the down points of making two you beams instead of a I beam ?

Can I avoid the backing part ?
I saw tutorials on the internet where the guy puts his composites in the oven and some where he does not and I haven't yet figured out what the true difference is ? (the video clips i saw about cello and guitars were actually baking their parts).

Can I avoid the infusion part (although I find it very cool) ?

In other words what would be the down points of doing a simple method like this one :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAdVO8Rkv6c

I hope I have not asked too many questions at the same time. 
Thank you all in advance for your answer. 

Regards, 
Julien 
Edited 10 Years Ago by Neiluj
brainfart
brainfart
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> Will I find a rather easy way of making a I beam, or is it more simple to just do 2 U beams that I glue together ?

The latter is easier, but it's a waste of material, because most of the material will be in the wrong location, strengthwise.

You are working with composites now, so other shapes that are difficult or even impossible with metals can be used.
Does the part really have to be shaped like an I beam? What about other shapes? E.g. a box structure?

XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXX          XXXX
      X          X
      X          X
XXXX          XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX    (Picture is obviously sideweays, rotate by 90 degrees)

This can be made from 2 U shaped parts and 2 flat sheets glued together. Easier to manufacture and stronger than an I beam of the same weight.

> I saw tutorials on the internet where the guy puts his composites in the oven and some where he does not and I
> haven't yet figured out what the true difference is ?

Whether heat is necessary depends on 1. the resin used and 2. the required strength.
ALL resins benefit from elevated temperature curing, and some absolutely require it.
As a rule of thumb: resins with longer pot life benefit more from the heating than those with shorter pot life.
 
You don't need an industrial oven to do this, often you can get away with using a styrofoam box and a few lightbulbs, or a cardboard box and an electrical heater with fan.

>
Can I avoid the infusion part (although I find it very cool) ?

Sure, hand layup still works fine. Vacuum bagging too.

My final advice, same I always give: start building the prototype with cheap glass.


f1rob
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Why make in 2 parts and glue together ? lay up your u sections then place together then laminate either  side of the side laminates then two pressure plates for the sides
Neiluj
Neiluj
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Hi, 

And thanks for your answers

@Brainfart : ""Does the part really have to be shaped like an I beam? What about other shapes? E.g. a box structure?""

Thanks for asking me those questions. I realize I have been too much focused on reproducing my former aluminum project. 
I will have to think about this, starting from your little "X" sketch which I really like because it will allow me to get the shinny aspect on every surface. 

About the DIY oven, I'll start investigate but if you have any pictures, links or tips... 
i may be able to ask in the kitchen of my work. Do you know if there is any danger of curing carbon in a protection bag and cooking a dish afterwards ?
What about the vacuum hose, will it have to be squeezed between the door and the frame ?

@ f1rob : I'm afraid my english is too poor to understand exactly what you are saying. It seems to me that you are pretty much suggesting the same thing as brainfart : 2 U in a sandwich ? 

XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXX          XXXX
      X          X
      X          X
XXXX          XXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX  

But if I get it wrong, please tell me Smile

Thanks again !
Don't hesitate if you have other ideas. 

Julien 
Edited 10 Years Ago by Neiluj
brainfart
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I think f1rob pretty much means the same, maybe this:

XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXX  XXXXXX
           X X
           X X
XXXXXX  XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX


2 U things glued together and then laminated on the outside and compressed with some plates.

> About the DIY oven, I'll start investigate but if you have any pictures, links or tips...

Thanks for reminding me, I have an oven project going on right now, might post a description as soon as it is presentable.
It involves an Arduino and a Raspberry Pi which logs temperature data, acts as a web server and displays temperature curves and controls the whole oven (PID, temperature ramp up and down) over the internet or your local network/WLAN with your smartphone, tablet computer, TV set, labtop etc. Cost for the whole controller will be around 100-150€, plus whatever oven is being used (*cough* ... old broken fridge or freezer *cough*), accuracy hopefully 1°C or better.
Ultimately I want to control an autoclave with it, but that's yet another project.

A real oven isn't necessary, you can improvise this. As I said, cardboard box and hairdryer will work, or a styrofoam box and a few lightbulbs, part wrapped in dark plastic and left in the sun, car parked in the sun in summer... be creative.

>
i may be able to ask in the kitchen of my work. Do you know if there is any danger of curing carbon in a protection
> bag and cooking a dish afterwards ?

I wouldn't do it. Not only because of the resin vapours (which might be not that dangerous depending on what resin is used, others might disagree), but since you are using somebody else's oven and other people eating food prepared in it... better not.
Another reason is temperature accuracy. Kitchen ovens tend to be rather inaccurate and the temperature oscillates wildly, like +/-10°C. If you want to tighten them up you need to modify them.

> What about the vacuum hose, will it have to be squeezed between the door and the frame ?

No. You can cure the part for a day or two at room temperature and then place it into the oven, when the resin is already hard and it doesn't require any vacuum anymore.
Edited 10 Years Ago by brainfart
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